champ11 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 11 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: And here people are spending a lot of time today talking about Elway's tweet rather than the trade rumors. Yeah I agreed with you that it seems to have been a smart PR move. I just don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 hour ago, champ11 said: Sandy is a freaking Denver legend and not a cheap radio personality. gtfo Elway. You aren't doing your job if you aren't open to upgrading the QB position. Everyone is focused on the QB battle when in reality this team needs to hope for average play. We have two average at best quarterbacks and it is probably the weakest position on the roster talent wise. It's true. What will be more telling of how our season goes is how Bolles, Garcia and Watson hold up in pass pro, and on the other side of the ball how well they can stop the run. I feel pretty optimistic about our running game, skill positions, pass rush, pass coverage and special teams. Just not counting on much improvement at the QB position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 2 hours ago, champ11 said: Yeah, you're right as far as the team goes. I mean it's probably a lie though so I just have issue with the language in general in our current political and media environment. The team probably inquired about McCarron although not seriously. 2 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said: And here people are spending a lot of time today talking about Elway's tweet rather than the trade rumors. 1 hour ago, champ11 said: Yeah I agreed with you that it seems to have been a smart PR move. I just don't like it. 1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said: It's true. What will be more telling of how our season goes is how Bolles, Garcia and Watson hold up in pass pro, and on the other side of the ball how well they can stop the run. I feel pretty optimistic about our running game, skill positions, pass rush, pass coverage and special teams. Just not counting on much improvement at the QB position. The reality is that McCarron is pretty much JAG, though. The Bengals were clearly trying to upsell him, "holding out" for a 2nd-rounder during the early offseason. Then, despite no action, suddenly we get this piece: http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/report-bengals-rejected-2nd-round-pick-for-mccarron/oXpDw3hnop1gm7wuNbKp3K/ So they were holding out for a 2nd rounder before, now they turned down a 2nd-rounder? Sounds a LOT like they were trying to create a Sam Bradford-like market situation - which doesn't happen when other options are available (Cutler for MIA) or the teams are thinking long-term (Jets, 49ers & Browns don't care to improve their QB now, all-in for Cousins FA next year or the big 3 in the draft). Honestly, the above is screaming that CIN is doing a major PR sell job - just like how Tampa did it with Glennon, and NE did with Garrapollo. There's also a very real possibility that CIN used Sandy in elevating any type of dialogue that was had. Elway is far from perfect, but I'd seriously doubt any sane GM would offer CIN a 2nd-round pick for an unproven backup QB. The spectre of Osweiler isn't that far off from the public's mind...let alone Elway's. Given the timing, Elway also had little choice but to squash the talk - the timing was clearly aimed at trying to leverage price, it's his job to keep the team on-point, which the reply did. Now, Sandy is a respected media guy, unlikely to impossible that he just made the above story up - so how do you reconcile the above? Simple - CIN used him. Rather than take one side completely, when you have 2 reputable people involved...the truth usually lies well in-between. I'd believe it's far more like CIN oversold any convo (and the timeline when any dialogue happened, and level of interest) than Elway throwing a guy under the bus with real interest in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 4 hours ago, broncos67 said: I disagree. The offense as a whole was a dumpster fire. Siemian was not stellar, but he was, for all intents and purposes, a rookie. Plenty of rookies had poor performances in year one. I'm not comparing just TD/INT either. He had a performance becoming of a rookie (essentially) except better. Better than Goff. If Goff had Siemian's season, people would be touting him as the next big thing. Let me be clear, I'm not arguing Siemian is the long-term QB answer in Denver. I'm not convinced that player is currently on the roster, to be frank. I think he's just a better option for this year than Lynch. Maybe something will change come game time, but Lynch appears to be still behind the 8-ball, while Siemian appears to be, at worst, the same as last year. That being said, last year was 9-7 and an opportunity for playoffs with a 1st year starter, no running game, and a horrid OL. If anything improves this year, we could be a playoff team. Last season was bad in relative Broncos terms, but most rebuilding teams would have been looking at our season as a building block. Frankly, I hope Siemian plays well because he would make wonderful trade bait. He's clearly not the QBOTF, but if he plays well enough that a QB needy team is willing to pony up a 1st for him, I'm all over that. I understand what you mean and I agree. With how talented the roster as a whole is it makes sense to iniatially go with Siemian. My point was more along the lines that Siemian wasn't good last year and there is a large group of Bronco fans that believe he was. I read not only on here, but other websites and from columnists that Siemians strengths over Lynch are his knowledge of the offense, decision making, ability to read defenses, accuracy, and ball security. While that all may be true when compared to Lynch it isn't when compared to the majority of NFL starting QBs and it seems many believe Siemian to be a "good" QB in these areas, when based on last year he really wasn't. He didn't make good decisions, he didn't take care of the football, which leads me to believe he probably isn't as advanced reading defenses as many are led to believe and he probably isn't as accurate. Factor in his never take a chance with the ball/game manager style and the fact that he was still one of the worst QBs in the NFL in these areas and it's a head scratcher the amount of support he has from a large portion of the fan base. Now with an improved offense I'd expect him to be better in these areas, but I also don't see more than an average QB at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Siemian had more poor performances (6 or 7) last year than quality starts (3). But those KC and Cincinnati performances were memorable and a lot of people are hanging their hat on those. Still a better ratio than Lynch who looked really bad in both starts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 12 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said: Siemian had more poor performances (6 or 7) last year than quality starts (3). But those KC and Cincinnati performances were memorable and a lot of people are hanging their hat on those. Still a better ratio than Lynch who looked really bad in both starts... Really bad would be kind. The issue is the reasons he looked bad haven't changed so far. That's not surprising to me because OTA's don't really give a chance to practice even close to game speed it's flag football. He's going to get his chance and preseason will help in that the D will be vanilla base and only part of time vs. starters. But we need to see more progress before feeling optimistic Lynch's time to actually be an asset is soon. There is zero doubt Lynch has the ceiling to be the franchise QB. It's just that it's still a fair bit away from getting to being even at game manager level. If he gets there then man it's interesting but as we recognize it's far from a given it happens. And until it does Siemian for all his current limits is a better win-today QB while Lynch works through his learning phase. IMO if he's not our 2018 starter if we even got a Day 2 offer for Siemian next year that would be a huge W . For all the talk of 1st rounders backups aren't getting that return. Sellers just keep throwing that price out but no one has bitten. @germ-x is correct in that the league doesn't view Siemian as anything more than league average at best. Now cheap and league average still has value but a 1st round pick is a pipe dream for a guy entering his final cheap year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 4 hours ago, champ11 said: Yeah I agreed with you that it seems to have been a smart PR move. I just don't like it. Oh I'm with you I don't like it either, as a journalist who respects the few journalists left in the world and Sandy is one, but i understand what it was done. I was justifying it just saying I understand why it was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliot878 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 7 hours ago, champ11 said: Sandy is a freaking Denver legend and not a cheap radio personality. gtfo Elway. You aren't doing your job if you aren't open to upgrading the QB position. Everyone is focused on the QB battle when in reality this team needs to hope for average play. We have two average at best quarterbacks and it is probably the weakest position on the roster talent wise. How's the saying go? If you have 2 QB's then you don't have 1... That's where this franchise is at, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 This is against the 2nd string Chi DL I am impressed by their depth. They are killing our OL. Latimer definitely making the case to be our 3rd WR early on. Another misfire by Lynch. Our OL isn't helping either guy on pass pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I'll tell you what Siemian did little to impress me. Paxton is also snuggling. Guys looked covered though. If this is our qb play going forward we are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 8 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: I'll tell you what Siemian did little to impress me. Paxton is also snuggling. Guys looked covered though. If this is our qb play going forward we are done. Siemian wasn't great at all but omg Paxton was awful that 1H. Eyes down with pressure - you want to see them up to extend the play and continue read progressions. And literally no accuracy way off. And Lynch did that with the 2nd string Chi D. The bigger issue was our OL pass pro was no better. No need to panic it's only 1 game. But unless Lynch shows a huge turnaround sure looks like Siemian in the lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DnBrnc53 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Well, it looks like Sloter throws the first TD pass of pre-season. I know that it's against third-stringers, but it's better than Paxton did against backups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 19 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said: Well, it looks like Sloter throws the first TD pass of pre-season. I know that it's against third-stringers, but it's better than Paxton did against backups. Problem is it is against 3rd stringers. Easy to get caught up looking at the tape but the competition matters. Still, what can't be denied is Lynch struggled heavily against 2nd stringers. That's really troubling for his present-day chances. I mentioned it in the GD thread, but one thing Sloter's doing in the 4Q, albeit against weaker competition - he's keeping his eyes up when extending the play outside the pocket. This allows him to continue following his read progression. We saw NONE of that from Lynch - and that has to change. Quicker read progression, better accuracy, and keeping the eyes up when out of the pocket, extending the play. What's really troubling is that this was exactly the same as last year - not much progress, and against 2nd-stringers, no less. Again, a guy as raw as he was, 2-year prep time was always possible - but it seems like a pipe dream that Lynch is ready to start Week 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Paxton looked lost night that the pressure of the qb competition more than anything is getting to him. He looked worse than past pre-season. Which I don't get because trevor really didn't look all that great either. He looked like a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Troy Renck (@TroyRenck) 8/10/17, 11:32 PM #Broncos joseph said no decision on QBs. Likely after next gym.And said Sloter not in mix for starter's job or 2nd team reps @DenverChannel pic.twitter.com/QH4oaZmeBp Troy Renck (@TroyRenck) 8/10/17, 11:26 PM #Broncos VJ "trevor was solid. Paxton had nice plays but penalties hurt" @DenverChannel I totally support the point that you wait for another game before deciding and I know that the HC should support his guys in public. But there's also a point where you have to hold people accountable. This is one of those times for VJ. Lynch completed 3 of the 4 completions on 6-7 yard hitches. He missed horribly on 3-4 throws and had happy feet and eyes down when pressure came. Saying penalties were the issue is a smoke screen everyone can see through. If VJ wanted to say our pass pro didn't help and needs to get better ok. But holding players accountable where they need to improve better be happening in the locker room if it's not in public (which I understand if it's just PR coachspeak). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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