Broncos QB Battle - Siemian it is

[thebestever6]

we'd be in a perfect situation if Brock or Siemian became a top 12 qb. Elway could offer Brock 7 million annually and he'd takecit rather than chancing his,career flame out elsewhere.

 

Trevor I could also see a discount after Brocks trials and,tribulations.

[AnAngryAmerican]

Politics, apologies for Fidel Castro, BLM, riots, protests, etc. aside, Colin Kaepernick a) sucks and b) brings a media circus with him. 

a) and b) are why he is not on a NFL roster. 

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

There has been talk on Broncos radio, about offering Trevor Siemian a contract extension at this point in time. What are your thoughts on this?

I'm for it ONLY IF they can get him to <$15M cap hit per year. 

The fact is that aside from Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees, every QB that has won the SB in the last 15 years was on their first contract. Even with those three, they won in years where they made less than $15M (Brady's cap hit every year is ridiculously small, Brees had prorated his salary in 2009, and Manning had to take a pay cut in 2015)

A team has NEVER won a SB with a QB counting for more than $15M against the cap. 

It just doesn't leave any room to build a team. Look at the Giants after Eli's contract. The Steelers since Ben got his money. The packers have gotten close recently but no cigar. And don't even get me started on the Ravens after Flacco took them to the bank.

The real reason Brady will go down as the GOAT? He took far less money than he could have to let the team around him be competitive.

 

[broncofan48]

10 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

There has been talk on Broncos radio, about offering Trevor Siemian a contract extension at this point in time. What are your thoughts on this?

I'm for it ONLY IF they can get him to <$15M cap hit per year. 

The fact is that aside from Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees, every QB that has won the SB in the last 15 years was on their first contract. Even with those three, they won in years where they made less than $15M (Brady's cap hit every year is ridiculously small, Brees had prorated his salary in 2009, and Manning had to take a pay cut in 2015)

A team has NEVER won a SB with a QB counting for more than $15M against the cap. 

It just doesn't leave any room to build a team. Look at the Giants after Eli's contract. The Steelers since Ben got his money. The packers have gotten close recently but no cigar. And don't even get me started on the Ravens after Flacco took them to the bank.

The real reason Brady will go down as the GOAT? He took far less money than he could have to let the team around him be competitive.

 

I've had this argument with my boss quite a few times.  He was a Colts fan and always thought Manning was greedy and the money saved by Brady was a factor in their championships.

 

But to me, its pretty easy to take less when your wife is the highest paid model in the world.

 

Also this has always struck me as fishy:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/12/19/patriots-pay-business-owned-tom-brady-and-partner-with-dubious-past/C4zMzcPDgU62WMMg10qeBL/story.html

[iLikeDefense]

21 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

There has been talk on Broncos radio, about offering Trevor Siemian a contract extension at this point in time. What are your thoughts on this?

I'm for it ONLY IF they can get him to <$15M cap hit per year. 

The fact is that aside from Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees, every QB that has won the SB in the last 15 years was on their first contract. Even with those three, they won in years where they made less than $15M (Brady's cap hit every year is ridiculously small, Brees had prorated his salary in 2009, and Manning had to take a pay cut in 2015)

A team has NEVER won a SB with a QB counting for more than $15M against the cap. 

It just doesn't leave any room to build a team. Look at the Giants after Eli's contract. The Steelers since Ben got his money. The packers have gotten close recently but no cigar. And don't even get me started on the Ravens after Flacco took them to the bank.

The real reason Brady will go down as the GOAT? He took far less money than he could have to let the team around him be competitive.

 

I think a 3 or 4 year contract of $15 mil per year is quite the bargain in the open market if this is the level of play he maintains all year. If we could do that, surely this team will have a high probability of success.

Man, if only the Falcons won the SB, they would have been the outlier in that QB contract/SB winner trend.

 

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

26 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

I've had this argument with my boss quite a few times.  He was a Colts fan and always thought Manning was greedy and the money saved by Brady was a factor in their championships.

 

But to me, its pretty easy to take less when your wife is the highest paid model in the world.

 

Also this has always struck me as fishy:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/12/19/patriots-pay-business-owned-tom-brady-and-partner-with-dubious-past/C4zMzcPDgU62WMMg10qeBL/story.html

Even beyond all of that. A multi-SB winning QB will make more from endorsements than he would lose in salary 

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

11 minutes ago, iLikeDefense said:

Man, if only the Falcons won the SB, they would have been the outlier in that QB contract/SB winner trend.

 

And even there look how many players they have on rookie contracts who were playing lights out. Maybe the argument could be made that a more mature, veteran led team wouldn't have collapsed like they did? ?

[champ11]

I don't think you invest that type of money until he proves he can stay healthy, tbh 

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

8 minutes ago, champ11 said:

I don't think you invest that type of money until he proves he can stay healthy, tbh 

My point is you should never invest that kind of money in a QB.

[champ11]

Just now, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

My point is you should never invest that kind of money in a QB.

Yeah if he's not an elite guy I'd agree. If you have a top 5-10 player at the position I think you have no choice. It's the most important position in sports. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

The CBA prohibits extending a player at a point in time less than three years into his rookie, and Trevor is in the third year of his rookie deal. So we won't be able to extend him, officially, until March. That being said, it wouldn't hurt if Elway and Sullivan, around mid-season, if Trevor keeps playing well, to reach out to him and his people and start talking numbers. For one, I don't think Trevor is the type of guy who is going to go to the highest bidder regardless of the team's situation. I think he really likes Denver and would be happy with a four or five year deal with an AAV of under $15m. 

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

15 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Yeah if he's not an elite guy I'd agree. If you have a top 5-10 player at the position I think you have no choice. It's the most important position in sports. 

That's often repeated but I would argue that especially with the poor OL play in the NFL since the last CBA, QB has become a dependent position. 

Even the top 5-10 QBs, none have won a SB if the cap hit is > $15m.

I will grant you that Brady, Peyton, Brees, and Rodgers are HOF QBs. But Big Ben was carried to two Lombardis and has posted a 3-4 playoff record in the 8 years since signing his big contract.  Was Flacco, Eli, or Wilson great? They rode elite defenses to paydays that then necessitated the dismantling of said defenses.

 

[iLikeDefense]

9 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

The CBA prohibits extending a player at a point in time less than three years into his rookie, and Trevor is in the third year of his rookie deal. So we won't be able to extend him, officially, until March. That being said, it wouldn't hurt if Elway and Sullivan, around mid-season, if Trevor keeps playing well, to reach out to him and his people and start talking numbers. For one, I don't think Trevor is the type of guy who is going to go to the highest bidder regardless of the team's situation. I think he really likes Denver and would be happy with a four or five year deal with an AAV of under $15m. 

I sort of get that feeling too but then again he is going to grow sick of the Lynch mob.

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

I sort of get that feeling too but then again he is going to grow sick of the Lynch mob.

Lynch is a sunk cost at this point. He will have no mob by the end of the year and we will deal him for a middle round pick some point around 2018 draft time. That's what the crystal ball tells me.

As for extending Trevor, despite being one of his biggest believers I just don't believe in starting contract extensions with guys this early, especially with his injury history and a sample size that is littered with play at under 100% health.

I do believe that his intelligence, calm and 'good enough' physical traits will lead him to a long starting QB career, and that he should be the next franchise guy for Denver (Pity that he is already quite old actually), but we should never pay guys too early.

[broncofan48]

2 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Lynch is a sunk cost at this point. He will have no mob by the end of the year and we will deal him for a middle round pick some point around 2018 draft time. That's what the crystal ball tells me.

As for extending Trevor, despite being one of his biggest believers I just don't believe in starting contract extensions with guys this early, especially with his injury history and a sample size that is littered with play at under 100% health.

I do believe that his intelligence, calm and 'good enough' physical traits will lead him to a long starting QB career, and that he should be the next franchise guy for Denver (Pity that he is already quite old actually), but we should never pay guys too early.

Yeah, I think if Trevor plays remotely well people will forget about Lynch, except maybe Elway.  And thats what worries me.  Not comparing the 2 but with Tebow, Elway wanted his guy and his brand of football.  How well does Trevor have to do to get Elway in his corner?