Broncos QB Battle - Siemian it is

[jsthomp2007]

At this point...Elway should just trade Paxton to someone who thinks he still has potential and get a solid RT for him.  Trevor is playing out of his mind...and even if Trev doesn't hold up for the entire season...you still got Brock and from what a hear a talented draft class next year...and you got Drew Brees on the market...that is of course you assume Brock flames out.  

I would like to think that Brock has learned his lesson that he is probably in a good position finishing his career, making millions of $$$, as the Broncos long-term backup...nothing wrong with that...I'd take that career in a minute. 

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

10 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

Yeah, I think if Trevor plays remotely well people will forget about Lynch, except maybe Elway.  And thats what worries me.  Not comparing the 2 but with Tebow, Elway wanted his guy and his brand of football.  How well does Trevor have to do to get Elway in his corner?

Trevor plays NFL football. Tebow didn't. All smart football people knew Tebow's style of play wasn't compatible with championships. If he could play a sustainable style of football Elway would have kept him. Trevor plays a style of football that is compatible with championships.

[champ11]

1 hour ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

That's often repeated but I would argue that especially with the poor OL play in the NFL since the last CBA, QB has become a dependent position. 

Even the top 5-10 QBs, none have won a SB if the cap hit is > $15m.

I will grant you that Brady, Peyton, Brees, and Rodgers are HOF QBs. But Big Ben was carried to two Lombardis and has posted a 3-4 playoff record in the 8 years since signing his big contract.  Was Flacco, Eli, or Wilson great? They rode elite defenses to paydays that then necessitated the dismantling of said defenses.

 

I think Wilson and Big Ben are very very good and Flacco is the worst NFL contract of all time. But interesting point about the complete overmatch of the OL in the league killing the QB position value. 

[broncofan48]

36 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

Trevor plays NFL football. Tebow didn't. All smart football people knew Tebow's style of play wasn't compatible with championships. If he could play a sustainable style of football Elway would have kept him. Trevor plays a style of football that is compatible with championships.

I agree with you, I just meant how long will Elway stick to "his guy" that he spent a 1st on. 

[French Fan]

48 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

At this point...Elway should just trade Paxton to someone who thinks he still has potential and get a solid RT for him.  Trevor is playing out of his mind...and even if Trev doesn't hold up for the entire season...you still got Brock and from what a hear a talented draft class next year...and you got Drew Brees on the market...that is of course you assume Brock flames out.  

I would like to think that Brock has learned his lesson that he is probably in a good position finishing his career, making millions of $$$, as the Broncos long-term backup...nothing wrong with that...I'd take that career in a minute. 

I see DT absolutely alone for a TD and Siemian looking again is first option even with a CB lock on his target. The 1st TD is a miracle when you see a traffic in the EndZone.......

We have 4/5 actions with the same problem.........i am not sold on him . 

When Lynch was drafted. Everybody said "2/3 years to be ready". We have not see Lynch for the moment

[paul-mac]

If Elway truly believes that Siemian has a chance to become a viable long term starter in this league then I'm almost certain that Paxton Lynch will be off the roster next offseason.

 

As long as the first round pick is in Denver he will be a shadow over Siemian, not through any fault of his own, but because it will only ever take a couple of bad games from Siemian and the fans and media will be demanding Lynch. We saw it before with Tim Tebow.

 

At this moment in time it really wouldn't surprise me if our three QBs in camp next year are Trevor Siemian as the unquestioned starter, a rejuvenated Brock Osweiler as the backup, mentor to Trevor and good locker room influence, and then Chad Kelly as the young developmental guy. 

[jolly red giant]

A few weeks ago people were willing to throw Siemian under a bus - now after 2 good games people want to give him $15million a year - let's wait until the end of the season, see if he is still playing well (and see if he hasn't been killed by the combination of Watson and Stephenson playing Tackle)

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, French Fan said:

I see DT absolutely alone for a TD and Siemian looking again is first option even with a CB lock on his target. The 1st TD is a miracle when you see a traffic in the EndZone.......

We have 4/5 actions with the same problem.........i am not sold on him . 

When Lynch was drafted. Everybody said "2/3 years to be ready". We have not see Lynch for the moment

 

10 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

A few weeks ago people were willing to throw Siemian under a bus - now after 2 good games people want to give him $15million a year - let's wait until the end of the season, see if he is still playing well (and see if he hasn't been killed by the combination of Watson and Stephenson playing Tackle)

Lynch has too much invested to not get another look.  That’s indisputable.  

Siemian hasn’t done enough to be a lock.  But it’s encouraging - he’s done almost everything you’d want to see.  Re: the DT TD missed read @ DEN very fair criticism - it was noted in the GD thread.  But it was also his only major mistake.   He’s clearly improving.   That’s a valid take.  

We don’t have to worry about an extension as @paul-mac pointed out we can’t even get a deal done now.  If he’s this good all year long then great.   

I don’t see Lynch anywhere but our roster entering TC next year simply because he literally has no trade value.  In such a QB rich draft class (perception rules all) he will need to actually show something in the PS next year (or 2H this year if Siemian gets hurt) to garner any interest.  Frankly I hope we don’t have to see him at all this year.   If Siemian is this good then we worry about next year....well, next year.  

 

 

 

[thebestever6]

I just think the criticism of Lynch is way unfair to this point all offseason we heard lynch cant beat out a 7th rounder. Well if it turns out that 7th rounder is pretty good than it is a moot point.

I saw some positive things of paxton in the preseason but it seems he was playing not to lose the qb competition instead of to win it. 

Right now, I see a Rivers Brees situation playing out which honestly is way better than that situation because both qbs have years left on their deals. As long as Trevor stays healthy and keeps improving he will keep being valued. And ideally as long as Lynch improves he will continue to get value. If it plays out like this I can't wait to see Lynch play next season I can't wait to see him play with nothing lose.

[jsthomp2007]

You all realize Siemien is 10-6 as a starter.  That is a full season of work.  

[jsthomp2007]

8 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

I just think the criticism of Lynch is way unfair to this point all offseason we heard lynch cant beat out a 7th rounder. Well if it turns out that 7th rounder is pretty good than it is a moot point.

I saw some positive things of paxton in the preseason but it seems he was playing not to lose the qb competition instead of to win it. 

Right now, I see a Rivers Brees situation playing out which honestly is way better than that situation because both qbs have years left on their deals. As long as Trevor stays healthy and keeps improving he will keep being valued. And ideally as long as Lynch improves he will continue to get value. If it plays out like this I can't wait to see Lynch play next season I can't wait to see him play with nothing lose.

There have not gripe over Lynch.  I am just saying Elway got himself in a situation that is pretty good...you have a starting QB who is starting to look pretty good. You have a capable backup in Brock, should the wheels fall of the Siemien train.  And, you have Lynch who is good trade bait for a team more desperate for a QB than the Broncos...you know, the Jets, the 49ers...they have QB issues and they aren't doing anything for a few years...they could exercise more patience with Lynch's development.  In the meantime, Elway can fulfill a few needs with the trade of Lynch...i.e. a viable right tackle...some DL depth...I think you solidify those gaps and the Broncos get into the playoffs.  I think if Elway doesn't address those positions then you get Siemien and Brock and any QB out there killed...and the Broncos are one injury along the DL to where it then becomes a weakness.  

This is just a really cool position for Elway...I think he played the game right in finding the QBOTF.  He simply stockpiled QBs and forced them to compete...now he has trade pieces...it is just genius.  

[BroncosFan2010]

Right now the only team I could see having any interest in Paxton would be SF. He, hypothetically, fits Shanny's scheme and they have no QBOTF behind Hoyer. If we could do Lynch for Staley, I do that deal yesterday. Gets us a starting OT, allows 49ers to keep tanking and get a physically talented former R1 QB to play with.

If the above unlikely deal doesn't present itself, I would just wait until the draft and try to move him for a R4 or R5 pick, assuming Trevor keeps playing well (Which he will).

The worse case scenario is Trevor keeps playing well and going into TC Lynch is still on the team. At that point, Trev will beat him out for the starting spot easily for the 3rd straight year and Lynch's value will plummet to a R7 type compensation.

The trio going into next TC will be Siemien / Osewiler / Kelly. And honestly that's a trio that I really like. As long as Osweiler is happy and understands his place, he seems like a chill locker room influence and a guy that can step in for a game or two if needed. Kelly is a really nice talent too and can eventually replace Os. And Siemien is the franchise guy, not a HOF type but I think he can be a Trent Green level starter, and that's enough to keep him around as our man for a while IMHO.

[paul-mac]

21 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Right now the only team I could see having any interest in Paxton would be SF. He, hypothetically, fits Shanny's scheme and they have no QBOTF behind Hoyer. If we could do Lynch for Staley, I do that deal yesterday. Gets us a starting OT, allows 49ers to keep tanking and get a physically talented former R1 QB to play with.

If the above unlikely deal doesn't present itself, I would just wait until the draft and try to move him for a R4 or R5 pick, assuming Trevor keeps playing well (Which he will).

The worse case scenario is Trevor keeps playing well and going into TC Lynch is still on the team. At that point, Trev will beat him out for the starting spot easily for the 3rd straight year and Lynch's value will plummet to a R7 type compensation.

The trio going into next TC will be Siemien / Osewiler / Kelly. And honestly that's a trio that I really like. As long as Osweiler is happy and understands his place, he seems like a chill locker room influence and a guy that can step in for a game or two if needed. Kelly is a really nice talent too and can eventually replace Os. And Siemien is the franchise guy, not a HOF type but I think he can be a Trent Green level starter, and that's enough to keep him around as our man for a while IMHO.

 

Honestly I could see us just cutting Lynch in March if we can't find trade value for him. Siemian/Os/Kelly is definitely the three I'd expect next year (we'll probably bring in a late rounder or UDFA to battle Kelly for the practice squad role)

[jsthomp2007]

26 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Right now the only team I could see having any interest in Paxton would be SF. He, hypothetically, fits Shanny's scheme and they have no QBOTF behind Hoyer. If we could do Lynch for Staley, I do that deal yesterday. Gets us a starting OT, allows 49ers to keep tanking and get a physically talented former R1 QB to play with.

If the above unlikely deal doesn't present itself, I would just wait until the draft and try to move him for a R4 or R5 pick, assuming Trevor keeps playing well (Which he will).

The worse case scenario is Trevor keeps playing well and going into TC Lynch is still on the team. At that point, Trev will beat him out for the starting spot easily for the 3rd straight year and Lynch's value will plummet to a R7 type compensation.

The trio going into next TC will be Siemien / Osewiler / Kelly. And honestly that's a trio that I really like. As long as Osweiler is happy and understands his place, he seems like a chill locker room influence and a guy that can step in for a game or two if needed. Kelly is a really nice talent too and can eventually replace Os. And Siemien is the franchise guy, not a HOF type but I think he can be a Trent Green level starter, and that's enough to keep him around as our man for a while IMHO.

I agree with you...the trade value for Lynch is as high as it is going to be right now...if he cannot beat out Trev...who would trade for a backup?  

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

Honestly I could see us just cutting Lynch in March if we can't find trade value for him. Siemian/Os/Kelly is definitely the three I'd expect next year (we'll probably bring in a late rounder or UDFA to battle Kelly for the practice squad role)

I don't think it will come to that. Someone will give something for him. It wont be a great return because the QB needy teams will elect to snag a R1 talent but a team with an aging starter may see Lynch as a viable investment at the cost of a R4 rather than taking a low R2 type guy.

Teams without 'heir apparents'  at QB may see some value in Paxton. I think we could get a R4 from:

Baltimore (Flacco is 32, backup talent - Ryan Mallett)

New Orleans (Brees is 38 and potentially leaving, backup talent - Chase Daniel)

NYG (Eli is 36 and looks cooked, backup talent - Davis Webb, 17' recent R3 pick)

Pittsburg (Ben is 35 and wants to retire, backup talent - Landry, Dobbs 17' recent R4 pick)

All the above teams outside NO also have offenses that rely on big arm QB's, and all except NO would be coming off years of a QB with elite height as well. Those things could bode well for Lynch trade value IMO.