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***Spoiler Thread*** Avengers: Infinity Wars


Deadpulse

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6 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

It's not at all. I'm choosing not to take either life because 1) murder is wrong, and 2) the countless examples of doctors incorrect/false declarations of outcomes. You are choosing to take a life based on the doctors word and what he believes will happen based on experience.

If you think the 3rd way is murder, then it is you who does not grasp the concept of murder.

Sure if you think self-sacrifice is murder you go right ahead. There are variables and not just so simple at looking at words on a page. Selfishness and evil can commit murder. Because they would not care about either, it would only be which could benefit them the most. A father who has to make that horrific choice is not evil, nor is he committing an act of murder because he is making a sacrifice one way or another.

You determined that risking both lives in order to save them both is acknowledging you are willing to sacrifice both for the chance to save both. Which is  taking a chance to murder. You made that premeditated judgement.

Edited by Calvert28
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Just now, Broncofan said:

And China has yet to open.   The carnage. 

I'm actually going to be dropping another $30 towards this cause. Wife wants to go watch it again this weekend.

It'll be viewing #3 for me. :D

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2 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Sure if you think self-sacrifice is murder you go right ahead. There are variables and not just so simple at looking at words on a page.

You determined that risking both lives in order to save them both is acknowledging you are willing to sacrifice both for the chance to save both. Which is murder. You made that premeditated judgement.

My premeditation that neither life should be taken =/= sacrifice. That's another far conclusion to jump to. Go back to the definition, "premeditated killing of one human being by another." In no way have I planned or thought out killing my wife and child. In fact it is the opposite. Based on the countless examples of doctors incorrect/false declarations of outcomes I have premeditated that it is morally wrong of me to sacrifice one life for the sake of the other.

Besides, it wouldn't matter in your world view. Murdering a baby is a morally just thing according to you so long as you save the mother.

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8 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

My premeditation that neither life should be taken =/= sacrifice. That's another far conclusion to jump to. Go back to the definition, "premeditated killing of one human being by another." In no way have I planned or thought out killing my wife and child. In fact it is the opposite. Based on the countless examples of doctors incorrect/false declarations of outcomes I have premeditated that it is morally wrong of me to sacrifice one life for the sake of the other.

Besides, it wouldn't matter in your world view. Murdering a baby is a morally just thing according to you so long as you save the mother.

So how does murder equal sacrifice im curious?? Those two are in direct conflict.

But you are willing to risk both lives for the chance that both will live. You are in fact making the choice to let them both die for the chance of another outcome.

Hell Dr. Strange willingly gave the Time Stone to Thanos knowing he was about to eradicate half the universe for the chance to save everyone. So in effect he murdered all those people the same as Thanos. So by that argument he is every bit as evil as Thanos.

 

 

Edited by Calvert28
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29 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

What is the projection for it? It seems like this will blow everything except TFA and Avatar out of the water.

Well Age of Ultron had the 4th highest gross ever.  And let's face it, it blows (compared to A1/A3 and really meh overall). The record for Opening week is 180M-ish, IIRC.   The presell is already the highest ever.   It wouldn't surprise me to see 200M opening, and 400M+ in China.

To me, given the strong word of mouth and strong showing through the 2nd NA/Europe weekend, I think 2M is very much in the sights.  No one is catching Avatar, but if I do think Titanic and TFA are very much reachable.   The big key is that unlike SW, China has a strong Avengers following (SW original trilogy never aired in China, so literally no adult > 40 fanbase to work off, unless you have  a strong base, or the movie's filmed at least 1x in China, then it's hard to make headway there, but with the MCU firmly in their consciousness, well, you get the idea).

Edited by Broncofan
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24 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said:

I'm actually going to be dropping another $30 towards this cause. Wife wants to go watch it again this weekend.

It'll be viewing #3 for me. :D

Wife comes back from vacation.  She needs to watch Ragnarok, then it will be #3 for me too.  

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5 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Well Age of Ultron had the 4th highest gross ever.  And let's face it, it blows.  The record for Opening week is 180M-ish, IIRC.   The presell is already the highest ever.   It wouldn't surprise me to see 200M opening, and 400M+ in China.

To me, given the strong word of mouth and strong showing through the 2nd NA/Europe weekend, I think 2M is very much in the sights.  No one is catching Avatar, but if I do think Titanic and TFA are very much reachable.   The big key is that unlike SW, China has a strong Avengers following (SW original trilogy never aired in China, so literally no adult > 40 fanbase to work off, unless you have  a strong base, or the movie's filmed at least 1x in China, then it's hard to make headway there, but with the MCU firmly in their consciousness, well, you get the idea).

I hope it does. I hate Avatar.

 

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6 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

So how does murder equal sacrifice im curious?? Those two are in direct conflict.

But you are willing to risk both lives for the chance that both will live. You are in fact making the choice to let them both die for the chance of another outcome.

Hell Dr. Strange willingly gave the Time Stone to Thanos knowing he was about to eradicate half the universe for the chance to save everyone. So in effect he murdered all those people the same as Thanos. So by that argument he is every bit as evil as Thanos.

 

 

If you murder someone it is your intentions to kill them.

If you sacrifice someone it is your intentions to kill them.

If I choose to not kill either in hopes they both live, but they die anyways, I have not murdered/sacrificed them because there is no intent on killing them even if it happens anyways.

As far as Strange, these are 2 completely different examples, why? Because Strange can see into the future.

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1 hour ago, dtait93 said:

Indeed it is. You are murdering the baby to save the life of the mother, which if you stay consistent, is selfish. Blind faith is not my rationale, that's a far conclusion to jump to.

You talk about saving one life, yet you fail to recognize the life that was taken. Choosing one life over the other premeditates which life will cease.

The situation is taking both lives, not the person. The person did nothing to bring the deadly scenario on, and they are not choosing to take one's life, they are choosing to save one. This isn't a glass half empty/full scenario.

By your logic, not choosing and letting both die would be a double homicide, so finding yourself in that situation makes you a murderer before you even decide what to do. I can't even believe this is a discussion.

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14 minutes ago, JonStark said:

The situation is taking both lives, not the person. The person did nothing to bring the deadly scenario on, and they are not choosing to take one's life, they are choosing to save one. This isn't a glass half empty/full scenario.

By your logic, not choosing and letting both die would be a double homicide, so finding yourself in that situation makes you a murderer before you even decide what to do. I can't even believe this is a discussion.

That sounds nice, but that's factually incorrect. In order to save the life of whoever you deem should live, you also take the life of the other.

Edit: Also you have no idea if the baby or mom will actually die. Doctors are not perfect, nor are they right 100% of the time.

Edited by dtait93
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