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***Spoiler Thread*** Avengers: Infinity Wars


Deadpulse

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2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

However, everyone else, including Gamora I think will come back. Considering Gamora was the sacrifice of the soul stone, she might be trapped inside as well.

Agreed. I think that there's a solid chance they'll bring back Gamora, though, I could see her being really dead as a shocking reveal in the next one. But the scene that was Thanos talking to the young Gamora after sitting his plan certainly makes it seem less likely.

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1 minute ago, The Gnat said:

Agreed. I think that there's a solid chance they'll bring back Gamora, though, I could see her being really dead as a shocking reveal in the next one. But the scene that was Thanos talking to the young Gamora after sitting his plan certainly makes it seem less likely.

This just occurred to me, does this mean Thanos was part of the natural selection of the 50% that was taken into the soul stone? How would they defeat Thanos if he's in the stone?

Or perhaps since he controls the soul stone, he can project it like a projector on the outside world. Something along those lines.

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I would think that it would be him being connected to the soul stone that allowed him to do that or allowed Gamora to reach out to him when the event happened. It was due to the power being output from the stones and that moment in time he was one with the stones possibly as well. There are a number of ways without it being a projection or something, or it could have all of been in his head, but I'm pretty sure Feige said something that would make that seem unlikely.

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1 hour ago, THE DUKE said:

I think we're getting a bit pedantic about a movie magical gem that was spawned in the beginning of the universe that can control time itself.

 

1 hour ago, fretgod99 said:

That’s kind of been my underlying point this whole time...

I mean, we’re going to just shrug off the ridiculousness that is how nanotech works but a wizard using a time spell to look at the future is where we draw the line? Sure, whatever.

FWIW, I agree with this point - but it's fair to say we want to see the MCU be internally consistent and plausible with what they are writing.    I think they've been, but I'd also recognize that because we don't have any set rules to work off, there's going to be more questioning about how X works when it comes to stuff like time travel, etc.   At the same time, I don't know how using alternate movie choices outside the MCU somehow calls into question what happens inside the MCU.  That's stretching it a little (ok a lot) too thinly in terms of criticism. 

The discussion on Strange and the time stone isn't ever going to convince ppl either way of the other side - because there aren't any hard & set rules.  I also don't see anything that's been inconsistent with what the writers have let Strange do - especially when we accept the premise that Strange has surpassed the Ancient One.  And by her own admission, she's seen multiple possibilities into Strange's future.    That's the beauty of great writing - give just enough to spark discussion, and allow for imagination to fill in the rest, both with what's said before, and in the future for a topic like how Strange was able to look at 14+ million outcomes.   If you accept that the Ancient One saw multiple possibilities into Strange's future, but not one set one (as the meaning for her last line), and you accept that Strange has surpassed the Ancient One, it's not that hard to accept his ability to see 14 million+ outcomes as an outside observer (and again, his remaining visible in the current timeline speaks to this outside observation role, not living inside each timeline). 

At the same time, IW stands out writing-wise in that it provided in-movie info for every key event that was implied in the movie (how Thanos & co. could overcome Thor & co., and how they were strong enough to wipe out Nova & Knowhere with little to no difficulty), so it wasn't relying on past movie knowledge to deduce these outcomes as a given.   That's an incredibly tricky balance, and few movies pull off the sheer scope that IW did, because of the difficulty in achieving this balance between covering so much that would need prior-movie knowledge (never a great idea) vs. short-changing the sheer breadth of storyline by being too literate in showing every event & explaining it in an explicit fashion.    If A4 can deliver on this in the same way writing-wise, well, I'll be floored.
 

Edited by Broncofan
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2 hours ago, skywlker32 said:

 

" Dr. Strange: I went forward in time, to view alternate futures. To see all the possible outcomes of the coming conflict. "

I realize he says alternate futures, but he also cites possible futures, which is no different than what the Ancient One did.

First, it's not that I WANT to ignore the general comics, it's that they aren't part of the canon material for MCU.

I don't recall, and would have to rewatch Dr. Strange to be sure, but I do not think we were given all that much information about seeing time aside from what we see shown in the movie. We do not know the limitations of what CAN'T be done.

1. I will not argue further about the differences between Strange and the Ancient One until you watch the movie and prepare a compelling response that is able to back this viewpoint up with evidence. I’ve backed up my argument ad nauseum about the differences. So I will choose to not acknowledge this point until then.

2. Fair. I post the above scene where The Ancient One explains what a Sorcerer does within the MCU. She compares sorcery to computer programming. Essentially what she is saying is that if you are a “Sorcerer” inside Madden 18 and you want to “fly” you would call upon that skill set from another video game such as Injustice 2 where they have gaming dynamics that allow for it. This allows you to break past the confines of your “Madden reality” and do things that others in that game would not find possible.

So there has to be a video game where one can access a program to steal in order to use that skill in the current game. They aren’t simply making up things. They have clear rules for what a sorcerer is.

So again, if we can’t use Marvel Comics to explain the impossibility of reading time without the time stone, then what would be a logical way for someone to read time giving the rules we have here?

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1 minute ago, diamondbull424 said:

1. I will not argue further about the differences between Strange and the Ancient One until you watch the movie and prepare a compelling response that is able to back this viewpoint up with evidence. I’ve backed up my argument ad nauseum about the differences. So I will choose to not acknowledge this point until then.

2. Fair. I post the above scene where The Ancient One explains what a Sorcerer does within the MCU. She compares sorcery to computer programming. Essentially what she is saying is that if you are a “Sorcerer” inside Madden 18 and you want to “fly” you would call upon that skill set from another video game such as Injustice 2 where they have gaming dynamics that allow for it. This allows you to break past the confines of your “Madden reality” and do things that others in that game would not find possible.

So there has to be a video game where one can access a program to steal in order to use that skill in the current game. They aren’t simply making up things. They have clear rules for what a sorcerer is.

So again, if we can’t use Marvel Comics to explain the impossibility of reading time without the time stone, then what would be a logical way for someone to read time giving the rules we have here?

1. You have not even come close to showing that what Strange is doing is any different than what The Ancient One did. Both looked at Possibilities. If you want the ignore the point, that's fine. It doesn't make you any less wrong. I don't need to rewatch the movie to know that they are even using the same wording that you decided was SO important.

2. So your point is that there has to be a "code" already for a sorcerer to be able to do something. That's fine. Where in the movie does it mention that no one can see time without the time stone.

And AGAIN, you can't use Marvel Comics to show impossibility because it is out of canon for the series (this is so very basic). The lack of proof of impossibilities in the movies and other canon does not prove that something is definite, but it most certainly makes it possible.

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1 hour ago, THE DUKE said:

I think we're getting a bit pedantic about a movie magical gem that was spawned in the beginning of the universe that can control time itself.

Sure. Any work of fiction is the same.

I could care less if vampires sparkle (Twilight) or if vampires can walk in the light without dying (Blade), but whatever they do, they should do it consistently.

We shouldn’t need to say, “well vampires aren’t real anyway so who cares if Blade vampires sparkle in the light” to defend poor writing.

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16 minutes ago, skywlker32 said:

2. So your point is that there has to be a "code" already for a sorcerer to be able to do something. That's fine. Where in the movie does it mention that no one can see time without the time stone.

And AGAIN, you can't use Marvel Comics to show impossibility because it is out of canon for the series (this is so very basic). The lack of proof of impossibilities in the movies and other canon does not prove that something is definite, but it most certainly makes it possible.

I’ve never stated that. I’ve stated that it has not been done in the source material for which the movies are based off of (except two Gods). I have also stated that given the definition of what a sorcerer is, it seems improbable for me to see how a sorcerer COULD do that.

So since you are defending that it CAN be possible. What I have asked you to do is to define how it could be done. If you are going to defend the possibility, then defend it. 

I am genuinely interested in how it can be done. To this point, you have ducked the question.

I mean, if I tell you that building a bridge in the air is impossible and you tell me otherwise, I will explain why I see it as impossible, but I expect you to explain how it is possible (though I can think of a few examples on the air bridge that could make it possible).

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Just now, diamondbull424 said:

 

I’ve never stated that. I’ve stated that it has not been done in the source material for which the movies are based off of (except two Gods). I have also stated that given the definition of what a sorcerer is, it seems improbable for me to see how a sorcerer COULD do that.

So since you are defending that it CAN be possible. What I have asked you to do is to define how it could be done. If you are going to defend the possibility, then defend it. 

I am genuinely interested in how it can be done. To this point, you have ducked the question.

I mean, if I tell you that building a bridge in the air is impossible and you tell me otherwise, I will explain why I see it as impossible, but I expect you to explain how it is possible (though I can think of a few examples on the air bridge that could make it possible).

And AGAIN, you need to learn to read. If the code exists, it's possible for the sorcerers to do it. It is POSSIBLE for the code to exist since it is not expressly absent. Therefore, it is possible that it is a thing that sorcerers would be able to do without the time stone.

I'm convinced that you are either incapable of reading a post and understanding all of it or you are just being purposely ignoring important parts of the thoughts that I and others have mentioned.

This is pointless though. I am done.

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11 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

Taking a tiny perceived (and debated) inconsistency and using it to cast doubt on the entire narrative structure is literally the definition of pedantic though.

But this is not what I am doing. If you go ALL the way back, I have mentioned more than just the inconsistency with time.

I mentioned the inconsistent power level of characters within this movie. The inconsistency with character decision making. The chosen plot that gave the movie too many perspectives. The fact that the movie gave a STRONG focus on Thanos, almost like it was a Villain origin story, but never truly gave enough backstory to make the villain as compelling as TDK’s Harvey Dent, X-Men’s Magneto, or Black Panther’s Killmonger.

It’s easy to see how tragic Magneto, Killmonger, or Dent’s story arch is compared to Thanos, but for all we know Thanos’ story was just as tragic. They all received similar screen time and focus and Thanos was more hyped than them all. I REALLY wanted Thanos to be the greatest villain we have ever seen, but he wasn’t.

So for a movie that I grade a 7.8/10, having some flaws is natural. I never said the movie was terrible. I’ve simply defended why I think it’s a C+ movie not in the same stratosphere as TDK, Inception, The Matrix, or even the original Avengers movie.

... but now we’re talking about time.??‍♀️

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14 minutes ago, skywlker32 said:

And AGAIN, you need to learn to read. If the code exists, it's possible for the sorcerers to do it. It is POSSIBLE for the code to exist since it is not expressly absent. Therefore, it is possible that it is a thing that sorcerers would be able to do without the time stone.

I'm convinced that you are either incapable of reading a post and understanding all of it or you are just being purposely ignoring important parts of the thoughts that I and others have mentioned.

This is pointless though. I am done.

???

I was reading on an 11th grade reading level when I was in first grade, I’m not sure that’s your best argument. 

In terms of the code existing, how is it possible? If I tell you that it’s possible for a man, without technology, to fly... and use for my proof that “since it is not expressly absent”. Would that make the response anymore sensical?

This is essentially what you are telling me with regard to MCU Doctor Strange.

Now if we were talking about Marvel Comics, I might be more apt to believe that there is some sort of spell that could enchant Kronos to reveal the secrets of time to a sorcerer strong enough to weave the spell. If this was explained well enough.

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2 hours ago, The Gnat said:

Agreed. I think that there's a solid chance they'll bring back Gamora, though, I could see her being really dead as a shocking reveal in the next one. But the scene that was Thanos talking to the young Gamora after sitting his plan certainly makes it seem less likely.

Yeah, they could leave her dead, I agree.

But I think it would be a poor choice as well. I mean GOTG without Gamora would be like Black Panther without Okoye. She’s the character that kind of keeps Starlord in check.

Though I wouldn’t be against seeing a GOTG where she’s revived but is somehow “soul” dead and they have to figure out a way to cure her all the while having to deal with a threat like Adam Warlock. Would force Starlord to have to mature in ways he wasn’t forced to before.

Heck perhaps they don’t know if there is a way to cure her of being “soul” dead and we don’t find out that there is until Starlord attempts to sacrifice himself for her as Warlock tries to strike her down. Unlocking some sort of “soul” restriction. Finally she’s back in the game and forces an inexperienced Warlock to retreat. Kind of corny, but GOTG always seems to make corny work for them.

Edited by diamondbull424
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23 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Heck perhaps they don’t know if there is a way to cure her of being “soul” dead and we don’t find out that there is until Starlord attempts to sacrifice himself for her as Warlock tries to strike her down. Unlocking some sort of “soul” restriction. Finally she’s back in the game and forces an inexperienced Warlock to retreat. Kind of corny, but GOTG always seems to make corny work for them.

Starlord will simply play "Soul Sister" on his walkman while dancing and Gamora will pop out of the stone.

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