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Cheese Curds: Green Bay Packers Updates

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13 hours ago, Krauser said:

I went back to 2015 because that was the first year past the peak of the Rodgers-era Packers. Thompson had his first bad draft class in 2015 and the overall quality of the roster started to decline.

The Packers have never returned to the level they were at in 2014, and they've now apparently decided to turn the page on the Rodgers era entirely within the next year or two.

Your initial argument was that Gute was a mediocre drafter, when he's only been in charge for 3 drafts.  Is that no longer the argument you're making?

13 hours ago, Krauser said:

That would be a point in favor of the Vikings having a strong roster, not against it.

Not coincidentally, Bradford (2016) and Cousins (2019) also had career years in purple.  

Not necessarily.  It could have to do with the particular weapons he had, the offensive scheme he was in, and quite frankly I think it'd be stupid to discredit the luck factor.  I mean, for all that "team talent", that hasn't translated to a ton of team success for the Vikings.  Over those last 5 season, the Vikings have made the playoffs 3 out of 5 times with 1 NFC Championship appearance.  The Packers have went to the playoffs 3 out of 5 times with 2 NFC Championship appearances.  I'm still not sure why you're trying to write off Bradford and Cousins as treadmill QBs.  Maybe not Rodgers, but not journeyman QBs by any means.

13 hours ago, Krauser said:

That would be a point against the Packers having a strong roster, not for it. 

The Packers offensive production was even worse with Hundley.

Love is much more likely to be another Hundley than another Rodgers.

Except that only makes sense if you're choosing to look at the numbers, and not the tape.  Go watch any of the Packers' twitter guys.  Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) is probably the best of the bunch, and you'll see a TON of throws left on the field.  I'm sure if you wanted to AG#20 could provide the clips of missed throws by Rodgers.  He's notorious for it.  As for the Hundley/Rodgers discussion, it's probably somewhere in between the two.  He's clearly a superior prospect than Hundley.

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13 hours ago, Ozzy said:

The production decrease for Rodgers is a change if philosophy and a little bit of a decrease in weapons on the team receiver wise and more focus on running the football consistently.  Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, Randall Cobb, James Jones and Donald Driver is a lot different than Adams, Lazard and Valdes-Scantling. 

Yes and no.  I mean, how many years did Peyton Manning and Tom Brady manage to put up big numbers with solid (but not special) weapons at WR and TE?  I mean, Drew Brees is putting up amazing numbers with Michael Thomas, Alvin Kamara, and a bunch of scrubs.  IF Rodgers can't get it done with "average" weapons, maybe he's not as good as we think.  I think the part that you can't ignore is that the tape shows him missing throws.

 

13 hours ago, Ozzy said:

So are you saying that Sam Bradford, Case Keenum and Teddy are some all world QBs or something?  Last time I checked none of them will be in the HOF, who would you take?  Rodgers or those guys?  Granted I think Green Bay has done ok drafting, not flashy but solid.  Either way are they good enough to win without Rodgers, well time well tell on that possibly sooner rather than later. 

Not at all what I'm saying.  Krauser mentioned them as if they were CFL drop outs who suited up for the Vikings.  As I mentioned, it's not like they were scrubs.  They were solid, albeit unspectacular QBs.  I would agree about the Packers being "okay drafters", which is something I've said from the beginning.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Your initial argument was that Gute was a mediocre drafter, when he's only been in charge for 3 drafts.  Is that no longer the argument you're making?

No, my claim was that the Packers roster has been declining “since Ted Thompson lost his fastball”.

His 2015 draft class was a disaster, and the roster has never regained the quality and depth that it had heading into that year: Nelson, Sitton, Lang, Matthews, Peppers and Daniels aged out, Lacy got fat, Cobb lost his mojo, Perry couldn’t stay healthy, Shields got concussed, Heyward and Hyde left, etc.  

The quality long-term additions since then (development of Adams and Linsley, drafting Clark, Alexander, Jones, Jenkins and maybe Savage, signing the Smiths and Amos) have been comparatively few and far between.

The Packers roster now has several obvious flaws and major question marks (WR beyond Adams, CB3, TE1, DE, ILB, RT and OL depth in general) that mostly were ignored this offseason or addressed with uninspiring additions like Funchess and Kirksey and Wagner.  For a team that used to have so many good receivers, DBs and OL that they couldn’t find a way to play them all, it’s weird to see the talent stretched so thin. 

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

The Packers have went to the playoffs 3 out of 5 times with 2 NFC Championship appearances.

Yes, because — and I’ll say this slowly since you’re having trouble understanding what you read — The. Packers. Have. Aaron. Rodgers.

There is absolutely no way GB would have won the division even once over that span, or a single playoff game let alone several of them, without an elite QB who is absolutely lethal when his team needs him the most.

The Packers’ successes over the last 5 years say a lot more about their QB than the rest of the team. Note that I wouldn’t say the same for the peak of the Rodgers era, when the QB and the team around him were both among the very best in the league. 

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

 I'm still not sure why you're trying to write off Bradford and Cousins as treadmill QBs.  Maybe not Rodgers, but not journeyman QBs by any means.

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Krauser mentioned them as if they were CFL drop outs who suited up for the Vikings.

Stop straw manning and have an honest discussion.

I said the Vikings didn’t have an elite QB. Which they didn’t, and still don’t. 

Teams don’t go to the playoffs every year or make it to multiple championship games unless they have an elite QB. The Vikings record the last 5 years with Bradford, Bridgewater, Cousins etc is comparable to the Saints with Brees, the Seahawks with Wilson and the Steelers with Roethlisberger. It’s better than the other teams with strong rosters and good-but-not-great QBs over that stretch, like the Cowboys, Eagles, Falcons and Rams. Basically no team has done as well or better than the Vikings with similar or lower quality play at QB. 

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Except that only makes sense if you're choosing to look at the numbers, and not the tape.  Go watch any of the Packers' twitter guys.  Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) is probably the best of the bunch, and you'll see a TON of throws left on the field.  I'm sure if you wanted to AG#20 could provide the clips of missed throws by Rodgers.  He's notorious for it.  As for the Hundley/Rodgers discussion, it's probably somewhere in between the two.  He's clearly a superior prospect than Hundley.

I’ve looked at the numbers and I’ve looked at the tape. I’ve followed Ben for years.

Rodgers leaves plays on the field, but he also makes plays that most QBs can’t make. And he makes those plays especially when it counts. He’s dropped off with age, but he’s still more than capable of making use of a decent supporting cast.

Jordan Love will be better than Hundley but there’s no chance he’ll be anywhere near as good as Rodgers.

Edited by Krauser

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This past season did show a change of philosophy for the Packers, focusing more on the run than the pass. Their passing attack with Rodgers was mediocre all season except against the Raiders and Giants. 

This season will tell us so much more about the Packers going forward. Personally, I don't see them being as good as they were in 2019 but not as bad as they were in 2018.

So maybe 10-6.

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Yeah it’s annoying how no matter bad the Packers or Seahawks rosters are, you know they’re guaranteed for 10 wins because Rodgers and Wilson will drag them there.

 

The Seahawks didn’t make the playoffs in 2017 when literally everything went wrong: Wilson played on one leg, the LOB fell apart with injuries, etc. The next year they looked to be a lock to be an 8-8 team because they lost so much of their veteran talent (like us this off season) but Wilson played out of his mind and they made the playoffs in 2018. 
 

Rodgers might not be playing at the level he did a few years ago but he has the same effect on the Packers. 

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5 hours ago, Krauser said:

Stop straw manning and have an honest discussion.

thank you.

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On 5/15/2020 at 2:56 AM, Krauser said:

No, my claim was that the Packers roster has been declining “since Ted Thompson lost his fastball”.

His 2015 draft class was a disaster, and the roster has never regained the quality and depth that it had heading into that year: Nelson, Sitton, Lang, Matthews, Peppers and Daniels aged out, Lacy got fat, Cobb lost his mojo, Perry couldn’t stay healthy, Shields got concussed, Heyward and Hyde left, etc.  

The quality long-term additions since then (development of Adams and Linsley, drafting Clark, Alexander, Jones, Jenkins and maybe Savage, signing the Smiths and Amos) have been comparatively few and far between.

The Packers roster now has several obvious flaws and major question marks (WR beyond Adams, CB3, TE1, DE, ILB, RT and OL depth in general) that mostly were ignored this offseason or addressed with uninspiring additions like Funchess and Kirksey and Wagner.  For a team that used to have so many good receivers, DBs and OL that they couldn’t find a way to play them all, it’s weird to see the talent stretched so thin. 

You also said "they have not drafted well under Gute", which was the part I took exception to.  Especially when I mentioned that it usually takes 3 years before you can effectively evaluate.  Nobody disagreed that Ted Thompson's latter years were marred with misses, which is why the Packers moved on from him.  But I also think that's a byproduct of the Packers hitting at an astronomical rate in his earlier years in Green Bay.  It's not like Green Bay didn't churn out quality starters.  From 2015-2017, the Packers drafted Damarious Randall, Kenny Clark, Blake Martinez, and Kevin King.  Obviously not great, but not completely barren either.

Find me a team that doesn't have their fair share of issues.  You won't.  The Packers will be fine.  And it's not because we've got Godgers.

On 5/15/2020 at 2:56 AM, Krauser said:

Yes, because — and I’ll say this slowly since you’re having trouble understanding what you read — The. Packers. Have. Aaron. Rodgers.

There is absolutely no way GB would have won the division even once over that span, or a single playoff game let alone several of them, without an elite QB who is absolutely lethal when his team needs him the most.

The Packers’ successes over the last 5 years say a lot more about their QB than the rest of the team. Note that I wouldn’t say the same for the peak of the Rodgers era, when the QB and the team around him were both among the very best in the league. 

Yes.  And you keep putting Rodgers on this pedestal that he is playing like he was in his peak.  The number and tape shows the same thing.  This isn't vintage Rodgers.  He's missing throws.  If you want to gush praise over Rodgers, go right ahead.  But it still doesn't change the fact that he's creating a ton of issues too.

On 5/15/2020 at 2:56 AM, Krauser said:

Stop straw manning and have an honest discussion.

I said the Vikings didn’t have an elite QB. Which they didn’t, and still don’t. 

Teams don’t go to the playoffs every year or make it to multiple championship games unless they have an elite QB. The Vikings record the last 5 years with Bradford, Bridgewater, Cousins etc is comparable to the Saints with Brees, the Seahawks with Wilson and the Steelers with Roethlisberger. It’s better than the other teams with strong rosters and good-but-not-great QBs over that stretch, like the Cowboys, Eagles, Falcons and Rams. Basically no team has done as well or better than the Vikings with similar or lower quality play at QB. 

It's not straw manning, it's an honest discussion.  Just because you choose to put Rodgers on a pedestal, and ready to dismiss every QB who has ever taken a snap for the Vikings over the last decade despite the fact that they've gotten strong production out of their QBs.  I would agree the Vikings don't have an elite QB.  And I'd also that Rodgers hasn't been elite.  You're living off Rodgers-peak.  He hasn't been that in about 2.5 years.  Blame it on Barr or whatever, but Rodgers has been remarkably human.  You want to blame everyone but Rodgers, which is fine.  Wrong, but fine.

On 5/15/2020 at 2:56 AM, Krauser said:

I’ve looked at the numbers and I’ve looked at the tape. I’ve followed Ben for years.

Rodgers leaves plays on the field, but he also makes plays that most QBs can’t make. And he makes those plays especially when it counts. He’s dropped off with age, but he’s still more than capable of making use of a decent supporting cast.

Jordan Love will be better than Hundley but there’s no chance he’ll be anywhere near as good as Rodgers.

How much better would Rodgers' numbers be if he took what defenses gave him?  Or if he took what the offense had designed for them?  Rodgers can make every throw and then some, but the reality is that he's been a very feast or famine QB the last couple of years.  I believe he was on pace for the most throwaways in a season, and not by a small margin. I'd assume he continued to surpass that record.

Let me ask you this, why can QBs like Brees or Brady get it done with less than stellar supporting cast?

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3 hours ago, CWood21 said:

You also said "they have not drafted well under Gute", which was the part I took exception to.  Especially when I mentioned that it usually takes 3 years before you can effectively evaluate.  Nobody disagreed that Ted Thompson's latter years were marred with misses, which is why the Packers moved on from him.  But I also think that's a byproduct of the Packers hitting at an astronomical rate in his earlier years in Green Bay.  It's not like Green Bay didn't churn out quality starters.  From 2015-2017, the Packers drafted Damarious Randall, Kenny Clark, Blake Martinez, and Kevin King.  Obviously not great, but not completely barren either.

Find me a team that doesn't have their fair share of issues.  You won't.  The Packers will be fine.  And it's not because we've got Godgers.

Yes.  And you keep putting Rodgers on this pedestal that he is playing like he was in his peak.  The number and tape shows the same thing.  This isn't vintage Rodgers.  He's missing throws.  If you want to gush praise over Rodgers, go right ahead.  But it still doesn't change the fact that he's creating a ton of issues too.

It's not straw manning, it's an honest discussion.  Just because you choose to put Rodgers on a pedestal, and ready to dismiss every QB who has ever taken a snap for the Vikings over the last decade despite the fact that they've gotten strong production out of their QBs.  I would agree the Vikings don't have an elite QB.  And I'd also that Rodgers hasn't been elite.  You're living off Rodgers-peak.  He hasn't been that in about 2.5 years.  Blame it on Barr or whatever, but Rodgers has been remarkably human.  You want to blame everyone but Rodgers, which is fine.  Wrong, but fine.

How much better would Rodgers' numbers be if he took what defenses gave him?  Or if he took what the offense had designed for them?  Rodgers can make every throw and then some, but the reality is that he's been a very feast or famine QB the last couple of years.  I believe he was on pace for the most throwaways in a season, and not by a small margin. I'd assume he continued to surpass that record.

Let me ask you this, why can QBs like Brees or Brady get it done with less than stellar supporting cast?

Rodgers crushed that record in 2018, with 59 throwaways.

He was on pace for 73 at one point.

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On 5/14/2020 at 10:41 AM, Krauser said:

Love is much more likely to be another Hundley than another Rodgers.

We all said that about Rodgers versus Favre, too.

Love is in an ideal situation to sit and learn without being thrown to the wolves.

And we Packer fans get to see Rodgers with an even bigger chip on his shoulder.

Look.  Anyone can spin the Love selection as a great pick, or a terrible pick.  Time will tell.  Just like it did with Rodgers.  

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Packers defensive lineman Montravius Adams was arrested in Georgia and charged with three misdemeanors, Tom Green of al.com reports. Adams, a third-round choice of the Packers in 2017, faces charges of possession of less than an ounce of marijuana, driving without insurance and suspended/canceled/revoked vehicle registration, per Green. The Houston County, Georgia, Sheriff’s Office arrested Adams on Tuesday night. He was released from the Houston County Detention Center less than three hours later on $2,964 bond, according to the newspaper.

Green, 24, has played 37 games with three starts in three seasons. He has made 33 tackles, 1.5 sacks, three pass breakups, a forced fumble, a fumble recovery and six quarterback hits.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/05/21/montravius-adams-arrested-charged-with-three-misdemeanors/

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Well, at least he wasn't caught brandishing an unlicensed weapon in his vehicle.  But, then again, he didn't have Letroy Guion on the team anymore to show him the right way.

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After missing most of the 2019 season with a torn biceps, Packers guard Lane Taylor has agreed to a pay cut in 2020.

Taylor will get a $100,000 signing bonus and total pay of $1.5 million, according to Tom Pelissero of NFL Media. Taylor had been due a base salary of $3.8 million this season, but it was not guaranteed and he likely would have been released if he hadn’t agreed to the new deal.

Last season Taylor started the first two games before suffering his injury, but this year he may have a tough time beating out Elgton Jenkins for the starting left guard job.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/05/30/lane-taylor-takes-pay-cut-to-stay-with-packers/

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The Packers signed 26th-overall pick Jordan Love, the team announced Wednesday. 

In a demonstration of the Packers' confidence in Love's future with the team, Green Bay signed him to a fully guaranteed four-year, $12,383,470 contract with a signing bonus of $6,566,160, NFL Network's Mike Garafolo reported. It's the first time the No. 26 pick has received a fully guaranteed deal under the current rookie contract system, Garafolo added.

https://www.nfl.com/news/packers-sign-qb-jordan-love-to-fully-guaranteed-rookie-deal

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, vike daddy said:

The Packers signed 26th-overall pick Jordan Love, the team announced Wednesday. 

In a demonstration of the Packers' confidence in Love's future with the team, Green Bay signed him to a fully guaranteed four-year, $12,383,470 contract with a signing bonus of $6,566,160, NFL Network's Mike Garafolo reported. It's the first time the No. 26 pick has received a fully guaranteed deal under the current rookie contract system, Garafolo added.

https://www.nfl.com/news/packers-sign-qb-jordan-love-to-fully-guaranteed-rookie-deal

Poor Sharon. They keep trolling him...

Kind of like a bad boyfriend who pushes his girlfriend into the arms of his rival...

I'm calling it now: Rodgers goes to the Jets next season...and Chicago in 2022.

Edited by wcblack34

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