MacReady Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Just now, Krauser said: Your take is that the Vikings went 13-3 mainly because of Keenum, not the rest of the team? And you think Cousins' record in Washington is mainly his own fault? The Broncos were 5-11 last year. The Vikings have been clearly better than that throughout Zimmer's time as HC, with QB play no better and probably worse than we can expect from Cousins in 2018. They had the #1 defense last year and should be roughly that good again this year. Even if you think Richardson is worse than Wilkerson, he's an upgrade from Tom Johnson, which was my point. What do you predict the Vikings record will be this year? Absolutely not my take that the Vikings went 13-3 mainly because of Keenum. Vikings have one of the most talented defensive rosters in the league, and I will never get over the Packers drafting Perry over Smith. I think the Broncos will finish better for a number of reasons: 1. I think Cousins is a bad QB. 4-19 against teams with winning records speaks for itself, and he had a MUCH better offensive line in Washington. I don't think any Vikings fan would deny that. 2. It's tough to come back from a beatdown in a Championship game. Regardless of who your QB is. 3. The Broncos have, in my opinion, more talent and an easier schedule. I think the Vikings will have an 8-8 or 9-7 record. This is purely because of Cousins. I think Cousins is extremely overrated, and I think he's going to perform very badly. That's obviously just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krauser Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 19 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: The Broncos have, in my opinion, more talent More talent than the Vikings? How’s that? Broncos were 5-11 last year. Even if you think the Vikings slump to 8-8 how does Denver get 4 wins better? 26 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: It's tough to come back from a beatdown in a Championship game And yet the Packers managed to start 4-1 in 2017. 27 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: I think Cousins is a bad QB Sure, OK. Cousins isn’t just overpaid or overrated by conventional statistics or decent but not enough to put the Vikings over the top — he’s flat out “bad”. What was your opinion of Case Keenum at the beginning of last season? What was his career record against winning teams at that point? And at the end of the year? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpMc Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Cousins played behind a pretty porous line in Washington due to injury. Trent Williams has missed 12 games (half last year) the last three years and has played banged up in numerous games. Brandon Scherff missed two games a year ago. Morgan Moses is good, but the others have been JAGs. When healthy, their line is much better than the Vikings, but that hasn’t been the case necessarily the last three years in Washington He’s had no running game to work with during his time there and a revolving door at receiver due to injury and ineffective play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 54 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: 3. The Broncos have, in my opinion, more talent and an easier schedule. I can buy your other reasons, but this is an absolutely awful take and certainly no impartial observer can ever have without bursting out in laughter. There is absolutely no justification for it that has any basis in reality, because they are not the same team that went to the Super Bowl just 3 years ago...the team has virtually entirely been turned over since that time. The Packers, even with my discussion of them earlier, have more talent than that Broncos roster. The Broncos will be lucky to win 6-7 games with that roster even with a better QB in Keenum and I'm not even sure they'll win 2 division games. They are that bad (and I don't believe it's Vance Joseph's fault...it's Elway's). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Vikings linebacker Anthony Barr previously suggested that Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers“get over it.” And he apparently has. “I mean, I think it’s time to move on for everybody,” Rodgers told Peter King in the debut of Football Morning in America, regarding the hit from Barr that busted Rodgers’ collarbone. It previously wasn’t over because Rodgers wasn’t pleased with Barr’s reaction in the immediate aftermath of the hit. As Rodgers told Conan O’Brien last year, “I looked over at [Barr] as I walked off the field. Cameras caught me saying something to him but what they missed was him [giving me the] finger [and the] ‘suck it‘ sign.” “I had looked over just to see if maybe there was gonna be a thumbs up, or hey you okay?” Rodgers told King. “Or whatever. It’s a league where you appreciate what we put our bodies through. I thought . . . knowing that I wouldn’t be on the ground unless it was a significant injury then maybe he’d be looking over, giving me a thumbs-up-you-okay? Or something. But it wasn’t the case. We had some words exchanged on both sides.” Barr has a different version. As he wrote on Twitter in October, “After the play I go back to the huddle, don’t even look or say a word to him. Once he gets up I’m waiting for the play call, and hear someone shouting all kinds of profanities. I look over and it’s [Rodgers] calling me all kinds of names, F you this F you that as he’s walking off the field. So naturally I responded. I don’t care if you Aaron Rodgers or Mr. Rogers, if you say something like that you’re gonna get a response from me.” So the hatchet apparently is buried. At least until Week Two, when Barr will be trying to bury Rodgers into the unfrozen non-tundra of Lambeau Field. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/07/16/aaron-rodgers-on-anthony-barr-its-time-to-move-on/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 55 minutes ago, disaacs said: I can buy your other reasons, but this is an absolutely awful take and certainly no impartial observer can ever have without bursting out in laughter. First, you're mistaking me for somebody who hates the Vikings. I don't. I was actively rooting for the Vikings to beat the Eagles because I thought they had a better shot at beating the Patriots. As soon as the Packers were out in Favre's good year there, I rooted for the Vikings. I don't hate the Vikings. Don't know, didn't then. I probably dislike the Broncos more. I am an impartial observer with every team but the Patriots. Head over to the Packer forum and see what they think of my opinion on Rodgers there. Second, it's not nearly bursting out laughable. QB - QB who took his team to the Championship Game versus QB who is 4-19 against teams with winning records. You say edge Vikings, I disagree. WR - Sanders/Thomas versus Diggs/Thielen. I'll give the victory to Vikings, but it's not glaring. RB - Vikings pretty easily. TE - Vikings pretty easily. OL - Broncos pretty easily. DL - Broncos. Von Miller, Bradley Chubb, probably better interior pass rush. Vikings have great pass rushers. Broncos have the best in the game and just added whom many believe should have been the first overall pick. DB - Probably Vikings, although the Broncos certainly aren't bad there. I see the Broncos advantage at OL, DL and QB as enough to say yes, they are more talented. Vikings are certainly more talented in certain areas - RB, WR, TE, S - but not at positions I find to be the most important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krauser Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: QB who took his team to the Championship Game Or... (and this idea may shock you as a Packers fan...) QB who was taken by his team to the Championship Game. Do you really think Case Keenum was the main reason the Vikings were 13-3 last year? What do you think Washington’s record would’ve been the last 3 years with Keenum starting instead of Cousins? What do you think the Packers record would’ve been last year with Keenum, and the Vikings with Hundley? If the Vikings had traded for Foles instead of signing Cousins, would you have them as Super Bowl favorites? Edited July 16, 2018 by Krauser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Krauser said: Or... (and this idea may shock you as a Packers fan...) QB who was taken by his team to the Championship Game. The point you seem to be missing is that Cousins is 4-19 against winning teams. I already said Keenum wasn't the driving force. Still, you can't have a bad QB. I think Cousins is a bad QB with a good coach. I think Keenum is an okay QB with a great coach. Cousins won't have that same great coach (OC). And comparing Keenum's career to Kirk's is wrong, too. Keenum, Goff, Foles all sucked with Fisher. None of them sucked without him. I don't expect to change your mind, just expressing my thoughts. We'll see what happens starting in less than two months now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krauser Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 27 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: The point you seem to be missing is that Cousins is 4-19 against winning teams. The point you seem to be missing is that that stat doesn't mean much and you're not making a convincing argument just by repeating it. Bye now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Keenum's errant throws in most every game were SOOOOO helped out by the acrobatics of his wide receivers. we would have won fewer games without their efforts to come down with the ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 So I guess Denver will win more games than Green Bay next year? Since their roster is vastly superior to the Packers'. Because if you think Denver's roster is better than the Vikings, then you can't make any plausible argument as to how the Packers will be better than the Broncos. Even with Erin back behind center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Since when did records belong to the QB instead of the team? just because a lot of people say it doesn't make it right, intelligent, or...not lazy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywindO2 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) Some tongue splittingly hot takes in this thread. Edited July 17, 2018 by skywindO2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) On 7/16/2018 at 2:43 PM, Outpost31 said: Absolutely not my take that the Vikings went 13-3 mainly because of Keenum. Vikings have one of the most talented defensive rosters in the league, and I will never get over the Packers drafting Perry over Smith. I think the Broncos will finish better for a number of reasons: 1. I think Cousins is a bad QB. 4-19 against teams with winning records speaks for itself, and he had a MUCH better offensive line in Washington. I don't think any Vikings fan would deny that. 2. It's tough to come back from a beatdown in a Championship game. Regardless of who your QB is. 3. The Broncos have, in my opinion, more talent and an easier schedule. I think the Vikings will have an 8-8 or 9-7 record. This is purely because of Cousins. I think Cousins is extremely overrated, and I think he's going to perform very badly. That's obviously just my opinion. Cousins is not a bad QB. I think most people can objectively see that. He's also hasn't been great and certainly not elite like some Viking fans want to claim now that he's in MN. I'd say good QB is a proper label to put on him based on his play so far. While Cousins certainly has a stake in his poor record vs winning teams; for the love of God, W-L record is not a QB stat, its a team stat. Vikings are obv a good team and I think putting them at 8-8 is not smart. Without a big injury or something they will obv be in hunt to win the division again. @Krauser, I hope your defense sleeps on Jimmy Graham like some of your fans are Edited July 18, 2018 by Arthur Penske Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 On 7/11/2018 at 5:27 PM, vike daddy said: I always love that .gif, VD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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