Cheese Curds: Green Bay Packers Updates

[Krauser]

44 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

You've literally just made the argument that because Garrett Bradbury is your starting C, and Elgton Jenkins isn't that Bradbury is better.

My argument isn't that Bradbury is better, but that Jenkins isn't better. 

Maybe he will be eventually, but it's hard to make a case for him right now when Bradbury is starting and Jenkins is on the bench behind Lane Taylor. 

44 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Sternberger is a little over 2 years older than Smith Jr., so the "3 years older" is stretching it at best.

Sternberger is a little over 2 years older than Smith, but he would be 3 years older than Irv will be when they each make their first NFL catch, if Irv makes a catch this month and Sternberger doesn't play until 2020. 

45 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Kinda hard to get pressure when the QB is running before the ball is even snapped.

Gary had 44 pass rush snaps in preseason. PFF doesn't chart designed QB runs as pass rush snaps, so those were all designed pass plays.

A significant part of Gary's preseason work came against Trace McSorley, Mike Glennon and Nathan Peterman, none of them noted scramblers. 

49 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

He's underdeveloped as a pass rusher, but you definitely see the tools.  It's going to be all about refinement with him.  If you can find a counter to use, he's going to be good.  But right now, he's a guy who is relying solely on his athletic tools.  Brian Burns on the other hand doesn't have those tools, so he's relying on his one trick (elite initial burst) and hoping that is going to carry him to success.  But what happens if/when OL get their hands on him?  He's like a fish out of water.

So Burns is bad because he has one effective move, and Gary is good because he might eventually develop an effective move, which he doesn't have yet. That's the definition of faith -- believing in things unseen.

[vike daddy]

arguing with @Krauser, or at least trying to disprove him, is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. after awhile you figure out the pig likes it.

[CWood21]

On 9/5/2019 at 11:18 AM, Krauser said:

My argument isn't that Bradbury is better, but that Jenkins isn't better. 

Maybe he will be eventually, but it's hard to make a case for him right now when Bradbury is starting and Jenkins is on the bench behind Lane Taylor.

When did I make the argument that Jenkins was better?  You made the claim that Packers' fans claimed Jenkins was "similar or better" than Bradbury.  At the very least, I think you could easily argue that he's similar.  Just because Bradbury had a clean path to a starting position doesn't make Bradbury.  Lane Taylor isn't garbage.  He's not great, but he's certainly not garbage.

On 9/5/2019 at 11:18 AM, Krauser said:

Sternberger is a little over 2 years older than Smith, but he would be 3 years older than Irv will be when they each make their first NFL catch, if Irv makes a catch this month and Sternberger doesn't play until 2020. 

Mental gymnastics are amusing.

On 9/5/2019 at 11:18 AM, Krauser said:

Gary had 44 pass rush snaps in preseason. PFF doesn't chart designed QB runs as pass rush snaps, so those were all designed pass plays.

A significant part of Gary's preseason work came against Trace McSorley, Mike Glennon and Nathan Peterman, none of them noted scramblers. 

Looking at the snaps, Rashan Gary had 25 snaps against the Raiders, 34 snaps against the Ravens, and 32 against the Texans.  Mike Glennon took 9 attempts.  Without going back and looking at exactly when the snaps were given, your entire post is at best factually incorrect.  Nathan Peterman had 37 attempts, 23 attempts between McSorley and Lamar Jackson, and 40 attempts from Joe Webb.  Ironically, no mention of Webb or Jackson.  Why?  And McSorley isn't a noted scrambler?  He averaged over 150 rushing attempts per game in his final 3 seasons in college.  He might not be Joe Webb or Lamar Jackson, but he's certainly a threat with his feet.

On 9/5/2019 at 11:18 AM, Krauser said:

So Burns is bad because he has one effective move, and Gary is good because he might eventually develop an effective move, which he doesn't have yet. That's the definition of faith -- believing in things unseen.

No.  Burns isn't a great player because he's a one-trick pony who is going to have issues because OL in the NFL are bigger, stronger, and more athletic.  Look at Leonard Floyd.  And this is coming from someone who was a big fan of Brian Burns coming out.  He's going to get destroyed in the run game, and that's why he's a situational pass rusher.  He might get more sacks, but Gary is probably closer to being an everydown player.

[SteelKing728]

Rumor has it that NFL players can work out and get stronger and better from the time they were drafted.

[wcblack34]

I like that someone is accusing the neurosurgeon of mental gymnastics. 

[KOTN-93]

1 hour ago, wcblack34 said:

I like that someone is accusing the neurosurgeon of mental gymnastics. 

I laughed too hard at this

[Cearbhall]

45 minutes ago, wcblack34 said:

I like that someone is accusing the neurosurgeon of mental gymnastics. 

Yeah, I didn't understand that comment at all but didn't figure it merited a response. There are no mental gymnastics required to understand the plain language of what was written. The acrobatics that were required was to twist that plain language into a comparison of their current age.

Quote

Sternberger is 2 years older than Smith, and may be 3 years older than Smith will be when they each catch their first NFL pass.

Then after a possible honest misunderstanding when it is clarified even further the mental gymnastics accusation comes out.

I can think of a couple reasons why a person would call that mental gymnastics. Whichever it is leads me to believe that particular poster is not worth investing energy into engaging in a discussion. There is no reason for us to worry about it.

Personally, I am quite comfortable in my belief that Smith Jr is currently better than the Packers young TE. If a Packers fan wants to believe their guy is better, good for them. It should surprise nobody they they have a bias and we have a different bias in our opinions.

But the mental gymnastics comments has nothing to do with the biases. That is about the level of discourse.

[vike daddy]

1 hour ago, wcblack34 said:

I like that someone is accusing the neurosurgeon of mental gymnastics. 

he ain't really a neuro SURGEON. a neurologist.

[wcblack34]

56 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

he ain't really a neuro SURGEON. a neurologist.

Mea culpa 

[perrynoid]

Didn't know which thread to put this in, genuinely funny!

 

[Krauser]

4 hours ago, vike daddy said:

he ain't really a neuro SURGEON. a neurologist.

Yeah I’m a medical subspecialist, not the useful kind of doctor. Just talk to people and try to figure stuff out. 

Mental gymnastics are my best kind of gymnastics. 

5 hours ago, Cearbhall said:

Personally, I am quite comfortable in my belief that Smith Jr is currently better than the Packers young TE.

ISJ is 2 years younger than Sternberger, was drafted higher, had a better preseason, and was playing higher in the lineup even before Sternberger’s injury. 

So, yeah. 

 

[vike daddy]

5 hours ago, wcblack34 said:

Mea culpa 

oooh oooh! i get to say it!

it ain't brain surgery. ya know....

[CWood21]

On 9/7/2019 at 3:25 PM, Cearbhall said:

Yeah, I didn't understand that comment at all but didn't figure it merited a response. There are no mental gymnastics required to understand the plain language of what was written. The acrobatics that were required was to twist that plain language into a comparison of their current age.

I understand what he was saying.  I just choose not to make the most extreme scenario for one player and the most positive scenario for another.  I believe I saw that Irv Smith played in ~26 snaps yesterday, and Irv Smith came away from with 0 receptions for 0 receiving yards.  Am I going to suddenly extrapolate it over the course of an entire season that Irv Smith isn't going to do anything?  No.  Right now, the Packers only have two IR-designation eligible players on the IR in Curtis Bolton and Jace Sternberger.  Sternberger wasn't going to be ready to play until a few more weeks anyways, so they stashed him on the IR to keep a roster spot open.  Could he stay on the IR?  Possibly, but right now he's projected to come off the IR when he's eligible.  But that's getting further away from the point.  Irv Smith is currently slotted as the backup TE for the Vikings, right?  Last year, the Vikings backup TEs (CJ Ham, Tyler Conklin, and David Morgan) had a combined 21 receptions.  The year before, the Vikings backup TE (David Morgan and Blake Bell) had a combined 13 receptions.  The year before, the Vikings' backup TE (Rhett Ellison) had 9 receptions.  Last year, the Vikings backup TEs (David Morgan and Tyler Conklin) played in 22% and 14% of the offensive snaps respectively.  The previous year, Brett Morgan played in 35% of the snaps and and Blake Bell played in 13% of the snaps.  That's not really going to be a situation where Irv Smith puts in some significant production.  Unless Kyle Rudolph gets hurt, I feel fairly confident that Irv Smith's production is going to be minimal.  Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm willing to admit I am, but looking back at Mike Zimmer offenses don't seem to utilize their TE2.  Maybe Irv Smith will be different.

[CWood21]

On 9/7/2019 at 9:13 PM, Krauser said:

ISJ is 2 years younger than Sternberger, was drafted higher, had a better preseason, and was playing higher in the lineup even before Sternberger’s injury. 

So, yeah. 

So we're "punishing" Sternberger for things outside of his control?  He was in concussion protocol and he's on a roster that's significantly deeper at TE.  Neither are world beaters.  All I'm saying is they're fairly similar other than the age differences.

[gopherwrestler]

18 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I understand what he was saying.  I just choose not to make the most extreme scenario for one player and the most positive scenario for another.  I believe I saw that Irv Smith played in ~26 snaps yesterday, and Irv Smith came away from with 0 receptions for 0 receiving yards.  Am I going to suddenly extrapolate it over the course of an entire season that Irv Smith isn't going to do anything?  No.  Right now, the Packers only have two IR-designation eligible players on the IR in Curtis Bolton and Jace Sternberger.  Sternberger wasn't going to be ready to play until a few more weeks anyways, so they stashed him on the IR to keep a roster spot open.  Could he stay on the IR?  Possibly, but right now he's projected to come off the IR when he's eligible.  But that's getting further away from the point.  Irv Smith is currently slotted as the backup TE for the Vikings, right?  Last year, the Vikings backup TEs (CJ Ham, Tyler Conklin, and David Morgan) had a combined 21 receptions.  The year before, the Vikings backup TE (David Morgan and Blake Bell) had a combined 13 receptions.  The year before, the Vikings' backup TE (Rhett Ellison) had 9 receptions.  Last year, the Vikings backup TEs (David Morgan and Tyler Conklin) played in 22% and 14% of the offensive snaps respectively.  The previous year, Brett Morgan played in 35% of the snaps and and Blake Bell played in 13% of the snaps.  That's not really going to be a situation where Irv Smith puts in some significant production.  Unless Kyle Rudolph gets hurt, I feel fairly confident that Irv Smith's production is going to be minimal.  Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm willing to admit I am, but looking back at Mike Zimmer offenses don't seem to utilize their TE2.  Maybe Irv Smith will be different.

To be fair, we only thru the ball 10 times..... an no TE caught the ball.

while I don’t see us having Irv put up some outstanding numbers, this is really the first time we had a TE2 that actually is a catching TE. Morgan played basically as a blocker, along with Rhett. We also have played more 12 last game than we ever have. 

Most likely he’s not going to put up huge numbers, but I do expect him to outdo the numbers of Ellison and Morgan did in past years.