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candyman93

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3 hours ago, hornbybrown said:

Can Anyone tell me why Lamar Jackson isn’t a top ten pick?

 

I see a very talented passer before you even factor in his ability to run

Because he's not a very talented passer. He has a nice deep ball, and is improving as a passer but it's still far off. Pocket movement is unnatural for a QB and he's still run first. His timing isn't all that and he's not particularly advanced with reads and accuracy.

He has a great set of tools though, so I wouldn't count out him being successful in the pros. I think the system is absolutely critical for him. Has to be completely catered to fit what he's good at and his unique running skills. In today's NFL I don't see why that can't be achieved. I think he could be a monster staying home with the Jags, playing elite defense and running some zone read, stretch big play principles.

I wouldn't be totally surprised if he ends up being a mid first round pick. He'll rise massively in the pre draft process.

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Question:

I watched and compared a few drives with Darnold and Rosen during their game. (I then binge watched a ton of Punisher but that's neither here nor there). Rosen got rid of the ball and threw very accurate passes. He looked better than what we have right now by leaps and bounds. What I saw during the game and read about after was Rosen looked better than Darnold. In fact Rosen is on a less talented team and has put up about the same numbers. Not saying Darnold doesn't have a lot of +s in his draft resume but what makes him better than Rosen? 

Right now, I'm in camp Rosen and Fitzpatrick with our 2nd first. I might even trade back into the first for a WR. Ridley/Sutton anyone? 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

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Just now, Mastercheddaar said:

Question:

I watched and compared a few drives with Darnold and Rosen during their game. (I then binge watched a ton of Punisher but that's neither here nor there). Rosen got rid of the ball and threw very accurate passes. He looked better than what we have right now by leaps and bounds. What I saw during the game and read about after was Rosen looked better than Darnold. In fact Rosen is on a less talented team and has put up about the same numbers. Not saying Darnold doesn't have a lot of +s in his draft resume but what makes him better than Rosen? 

Right now, I'm in camp Rosen and Fitzpatrick with our 2nd first. I might even trade back into the first for a WR. Ridley/Sutton anyone? 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

I think it's important to keep in mind that was one game. USC's gameplay was to run the ball down UCLA's throat and that coupled with the way the game played out with the punt return etc, as a result meant Darnold had hardly thrown a pass not long before the end of the first half.

Darnold is liked more I believe, at least in my case, because I've consistently seen him make wow plays and produce in the clutch. He has a fantastic combination of arm and legs and does a good job of moving in and out of the pocket and keeping his eyes downfield to make plays. That wasn't so much on show against UCLA aside from a couple of big time plays. He is raw too as he hasn't played QB for very long but I prefer him because I think his upside his skyhigh.

I also like Rosen and wouldn't be mad at all if that's who we end up with. He's a statue but he's functional in the pocket and has a great feel for it, as well as good timing and accuracy. But he also is good for some backbreaking picks, just like the redzone one you saw. He could've had a couple more taken away as well. I think his arm is a bit overrated still, and I'm not completely convinced he can drive it in the cold weather. When he's late and the ball sails, it can be easy pickings.

I don't think preferring either one over the other is outrageous. I just like Darnold because I think he has so much potential to be so much better than he already is. Good arm, athletic, clutch, big. If he gets good pro coaching, the final product is tantalising.

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15 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

I think it's important to keep in mind that was one game. USC's gameplay was to run the ball down UCLA's throat and that coupled with the way the game played out with the punt return etc, as a result meant Darnold had hardly thrown a pass not long before the end of the first half.

Darnold is liked more I believe, at least in my case, because I've consistently seen him make wow plays and produce in the clutch. He has a fantastic combination of arm and legs and does a good job of moving in and out of the pocket and keeping his eyes downfield to make plays. That wasn't so much on show against UCLA aside from a couple of big time plays. He is raw too as he hasn't played QB for very long but I prefer him because I think his upside his skyhigh.

I also like Rosen and wouldn't be mad at all if that's who we end up with. He's a statue but he's functional in the pocket and has a great feel for it, as well as good timing and accuracy. But he also is good for some backbreaking picks, just like the redzone one you saw. He could've had a couple more taken away as well. I think his arm is a bit overrated still, and I'm not completely convinced he can drive it in the cold weather. When he's late and the ball sails, it can be easy pickings.

I don't think preferring either one over the other is outrageous. I just like Darnold because I think he has so much potential to be so much better than he already is. Good arm, athletic, clutch, big. If he gets good pro coaching, the final product is tantalising.

So if I get this straight:

Rosen: You pretty much know what you are going to get with him. There is some room to improve and he can be coached up but you are getting a high quality pocket passer with accuracy, good arm strength but has a tendency to throw a pick every now and then 

VS 

Darnold: Who has the same qualities as Rosen but a much greater upside as to untapped potential. 

Makes sense and was well put. One like for you good sir!

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That is all

Mastercheddaar

 

 

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I'd say that's pretty much it. Though Darnold isn't as refined in the pocket. But he has shown some of the things you need to be successful in that regard; reads, eyes downfield, progressing through targets, innate pocket movement at times. He gets happy feet at times though and can be quick to leave the pocket.

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I think there is a 3rd factor in play, intangibles. Rosden started the season with a question mark in this area and Darnold is very clean, so that too will play a part in who comes out first.

Rosen is one of the best technical QB's to come out of college football in a long time, but his HC is questionable and how much has that affected him?

Currently, NFL GM's prefer Darnold, but that can change quickly when you have 2 talented guys. It is probably the interview process at the combine,and their pro days that will decide the fate of both.

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19 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

I don't loathe the thought of taking Mayfield, but nowhere near the #1 pick. And we can't not take a QB at #1 this year, so I don't see how Mayfield could happen.

We are going to get a top-7 pick from Houston, so I could very much see taking someone like Barkley #1 and then Mayfield with our other pick.  I see him being the third passer off the board.  I'm even hoping in a way that Darnold speaks with our front office ahead of the draft and says, "Trade down with your pick because I won't play for you."  Then we trade down a short distance for premium picks & take Mayfield, the best dude in the draft.  I'd love to end up with Mayfield & Barkley, though I'd take Mayfield over him.  Yes, yes...crazy take...yes, yes.

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I could get on board with a Mayfield and Barkley combination. I could even get on board with Barkley and Lamar Jackson to give us a freakishly athletic offense with Duke, Njoku, Coleman, Jackson and Barkley then trade back into 1st for WR. A lot of stuff and offensive coordinator could dream up with that kind of athletic ability at the skilled positions.

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I love Mayfield, but he may well measure in at 5'10", but he has everything else in spades, but there is no guarantee, he will last till the 6th or 7th pick and Lamar has a very thin lower body,, which does not speak well for longevity at QB in the NFL. Whoever, we take at #1 will have to be a QB and the general consensus among GM's is that Darnold has the biggest upside among all the QB prospects, so I think we have to go QB and hope Barkley is there when we pick again, otherwise find a RB in round 2 where so many NFL star RB's are found.

That's the danger of trying for Barkley at 1 and waiting to draft a QB, you will likely end up with the 4th rated one and I just do not think that is a smart move. RB's, because of history, have a very high rate for injuries and short careers, do we really want to take one #1 overall, something that has not been tried before since the NFL became a passing league. Even Peterson slipped to the #6 pick and he was bugged by injuries, his whole career and worse yet, he rarely took Minny to the playoffs, never mind the SB.

We simply have to take the highest rated QB in the draft and whoever is making our pick, you can be absolutely sure, that is exactly what he will do, because if say Darnold goes #2 overall and turns out to be a real stud QB while our 4th ranked QB turns out to be another dud, even if it is caused by injuries, our GM will never get another job in the NFL except a minor one and he knows clearly, that his fate will rest on getting a franchise QB in the 2018 draft or Haslam will fire him. End of story!!!

The only other option I can see happening, if Darnold says he will go back to school rather than sign with Cleveland, is trade the pick to the #3 or #4 team for a boatload of picks/players au la the Eli type trade and then take Mayfield, but remember, Eli won 2 SB's for the Giants while Rivers has played on a last place team for years, so we could be between a rock and a hard place, depending on how our drafter sees the #2 or #3 rated QB's in the draft???

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On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 9:57 PM, brownie man said:

A more athletic corner

roaming Free safety

pass rushing specialist 

This...

And this draft will be LOADED with good pass rushers to take later in the draft.

Tyquan Lewis

Lorenzo Carter

Jalyn Holmes

Marcell Frazier

Marcus Davenport

Dorance Armstrong

Walter Brady

Kemoko Turay

 

 

 

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