College Football / NFL Draft Discussion

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, Dogbite said:

You are all overrated DeShone Kizer.

After his recent benching, I'd say that ship has sailed.

1 minute ago, Dogbite said:

We have had way more guys open this year than anyone is willing to admit.

Not at the outside flanker/WR positions we haven't.

1 minute ago, Dogbite said:

I mean there has to be a scapegoat right and surely it cannot be the latest hope at QB can it? Kizer has failed to find open receivers far more often than receivers not getting open, and even more that receivers have dropped pass.

Our QB and WR situation has been a joke thus far.

1 minute ago, Dogbite said:

Do we have bad receivers? Yes.

Good to see you answered this question correctly.

1 minute ago, Dogbite said:

Do we need to go out and find 5 new receivers? Absolutely not.

I don't think too many people want 5 new ones, I think people want 1-2 dynamic, game changing outside WR who are also viable Red Zone threats (See: A.J. Green, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, Randy Moss, Cris Carter, T.O.)

1 minute ago, Dogbite said:

Kasen Williams has a place in this league.

As a #4 WR.

1 minute ago, Dogbite said:

Ricardo Louis has made big strides from last year to this year and even from the start of the year to where he is now.

That's like saying Danny Shelton cut his 40 time by 1/10 of a second.

1 minute ago, Dogbite said:

David Njoku and Seth DeValve are on there way to being very good threats in the passing game.

Njoku is a future star. DeValve has shown flashes of being somewhat competent. That's a far cry from very good.

1 minute ago, Dogbite said:

Duke Johnson is a massive weapon in the passing game.

Duke is the man.

1 minute ago, Dogbite said:

Corey Coleman has played well and shined like a great WRs at times.

He's looked like he could be an injury bust just as much if not more so than that above statement.

1 minute ago, Dogbite said:

Now that his hand has finally been dealt with properly instead of the quick way I believe he will be fine moving forward.

I hope you're right. However, he's still a giant question mark at best moving forward.

[brownie man]

Kizer looked good with Coleman 

too bad he’s not there

 

[Dogbite]

I mentioned drafting 1 RB who happens to be the best RB prospect in a very very very long time and I immediately get responses about needed WR and stacking the box would take Barkley out. I don't care what arguments you have but that sounds like people thinking we need more than 1 or 2 WRs or that we must use our highest picks on WRs or the team will always remain crap.I mean last I checked we owned about 1/4 of the draft and 5 Top 64 picks. I wouldn't think using the highest pick on a RB would completely eliminate adding WRs talent. The first post and their overreaction is all that I am arguing. Now I have a bunch of people chiming in as if I am anti WRs.

 

Seth DeValve has been much better than you give him credit for MWill. He has been open a lot. Louis has been open. Kizer has been missing or not finding open guys. We need one #1/#2 type WR and everything falls into place. Everyone is playing too far up the pecking order right now. #1/#2 to battle with Corey Coleman for that #1/#2 spot, Njoku, Duke Johnson, Seth DeValve, Kasen Williams and Ricardo Louis with a STUD in the backfield and consistent running game is more than enough to have an effective NFL offense. Some teams have been very effective with far less.

[MWil23]

4 minutes ago, Dogbite said:

Seth DeValve has been much better than you give him credit for MWill. He has been open a lot.

I said that he's looking competent. He is. 22 catches for 285 yards and 2 TD in his career is competent. He's not much more than that at this point of his career. Throw in his absolute JOKE of a blocking ability, and he's a tall/big bodied slot and will never be a true tight end. That actually doesn't bother me. Just because I don't see a guy who is a future budding star doesn't mean that I don't like him.

4 minutes ago, Dogbite said:

Louis has been open. Kizer has been missing or not finding open guys.

Louis has been open some and dropped some balls/run some wrong routes too.

4 minutes ago, Dogbite said:

We need one #1/#2 type WR and everything falls into place.

Again, that's basically what I said above. Assuming that we get a legitimate Franchise QB and a quality RB.

4 minutes ago, Dogbite said:

Everyone is playing too far up the pecking order right now. #1/#2 to battle with Corey Coleman for that #1/#2 spot, Njoku, Duke Johnson, Seth DeValve, Kasen Williams and Ricardo Louis with a STUD in the backfield and consistent running game is more than enough to have an effective NFL offense.

Assuming Coleman pans out to be a viable quality #1 receiver (I see him as an above average #2 or a dynamic slot personally), sure. Kasen Williams will be a decent #4, DeValve will be a rotational slot with value in the Red Zone and a liability as a blocker, Duke will be a weapon to use out of the backfield, and Louis MIGHT make the team next year, although I hope not (Hoping we draft/acquire 1-2 stud outside WR). 

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

33 minutes ago, Dogbite said:

I mentioned drafting 1 RB who happens to be the best RB prospect in a very very very long time and I immediately get responses about needed WR and stacking the box would take Barkley out.

Wasn't that Fournette? Wait, no Zeke.  Wait..it was Gurley... No, it was TRich....

[Dogbite]

36 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Wasn't that Fournette? Wait, no Zeke.  Wait..it was Gurley... No, it was TRich....

Lots of people can be wrong a lot of the time. That doesn't mean everyone is wrong all of the time. I really liked Todd Gurley and Leonard Fournette, and they are very young doing some good things this year so I have no idea what your comment is suppose to mean. Ezekiel Elliott and Trent Richardson were always overrated. T-Rich was a one dimensional threat in the way he ran the ball. Zeke is very very good and technically sound as you can possible find in a RB, but he has never once displayed elite athletic traits that separate the very good from the great. And again Zeke is doing very very well so I still don't know what you are trying to get at here. He is doing about as well as his natural abilities will let him. Since I have started watching the draft process only Adrian Peterson and Leonard Fournette have been worthy of being referred to as Generational Talents IMO and I believe Saquan Barkley offers even more than Fournette but still not as much as Peterson the prospect(I believe he even missed his top potential due to injury and off the field stuff).

 

I have no watched everyone at every position yet but Barkley might be the only player in this draft who be one of the best at his position in the last decade. I don't see one single stud WR in this class. I like what Simmie Cobbs has to offer on short routes but he's not explosive over the top. Darnold and Rosen both have plenty of flaws that leave them out of the Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck or Cam Newton conversation. I really liked what I saw out of Connor Williams from Texas but I haven't seen enough of him to say he is in the Orlando Pace or Joe Thomas category as a prospect. There is a long long way to go in this football season and a lot more players to watch so we shall see, but Barkley is currently King and its not even close.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, Dogbite said:

Lots of people can be wrong a lot of the time. That doesn't mean everyone is wrong all of the time. I really liked Todd Gurley and Leonard Fournette, and they are very young doing some good things this year so I have no idea what your comment is suppose to mean. Ezekiel Elliott and Trent Richardson were always overrated. T-Rich was a one dimensional threat in the way he ran the ball. Zeke is very very good and technically sound as you can possible find in a RB, but he has never once displayed elite athletic traits that separate the very good from the great. And again Zeke is doing very very well so I still don't know what you are trying to get at here. He is doing about as well as his natural abilities will let him. Since I have started watching the draft process only Adrian Peterson and Leonard Fournette have been worthy of being referred to as Generational Talents IMO and I believe Saquan Barkley offers even more than Fournette but still not as much as Peterson the prospect(I believe he even missed his top potential due to injury and off the field stuff).

 

I have no watched everyone at every position yet but Barkley might be the only player in this draft who be one of the best at his position in the last decade. I don't see one single stud WR in this class. I like what Simmie Cobbs has to offer on short routes but he's not explosive over the top. Darnold and Rosen both have plenty of flaws that leave them out of the Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck or Cam Newton conversation. I really liked what I saw out of Connor Williams from Texas but I haven't seen enough of him to say he is in the Orlando Pace or Joe Thomas category as a prospect. There is a long long way to go in this football season and a lot more players to watch so we shall see, but Barkley is currently King and its not even close.

I'm saying the "best RB since AP" comes out about every year or two, and "this guy's different because...." is said every year.

[MSURacerDT55]

1 hour ago, Dogbite said:

I mentioned drafting 1 RB who happens to be the best RB prospect in a very very very long time and I immediately get responses about needed WR and stacking the box would take Barkley out. I don't care what arguments you have but that sounds like people thinking we need more than 1 or 2 WRs or that we must use our highest picks on WRs or the team will always remain crap.I mean last I checked we owned about 1/4 of the draft and 5 Top 64 picks. I wouldn't think using the highest pick on a RB would completely eliminate adding WRs talent. The first post and their overreaction is all that I am arguing. Now I have a bunch of people chiming in as if I am anti WRs.

 

Seth DeValve has been much better than you give him credit for MWill. He has been open a lot. Louis has been open. Kizer has been missing or not finding open guys. We need one #1/#2 type WR and everything falls into place. Everyone is playing too far up the pecking order right now. #1/#2 to battle with Corey Coleman for that #1/#2 spot, Njoku, Duke Johnson, Seth DeValve, Kasen Williams and Ricardo Louis with a STUD in the backfield and consistent running game is more than enough to have an effective NFL offense. Some teams have been very effective with far less.

Uhhhh, yeah that true because they can do basic things like catch the ball or run simple routes. You're right about Louis being open, can you remind me of what happened after the ball was thrown to him? Also, since you have it all figured out, what would be your remedy for our current passing game since teams are stacking the box against our running game?

[MSURacerDT55]

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I'm saying the "best RB since AP" comes out about every year or two, and "this guy's different because...." is said every year.

Went right over his head....

[Dogbite]

10 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I'm saying the "best RB since AP" comes out about every year or two, and "this guy's different because...." is said every year.

I get that part and I said lots of people are wrong lots of times. Doesn't make everyone wrong all the time. I honestly never put any of those guys in Peterson's category. Leonard Fournette was the closest thing to that level. It just so happens I believe the next guys who is the closest thing is in the very next draft so what? Werent Bruce Smith and Reggie White drafted in back to back years? Also just in case you were going to argue Barkley/Peterson. I believe Barkley is the best since Peterson but still not on Peterson's level. Like I said before I believe Peterson has actually miss his potential by a good margin. It may be another 10 years before the NFL sees a prospect at RB like Peterson again. I mean how long did the NFL have to wait before they saw another RB who was even remotely comparable to Jim Brown? Still SaQuan Barkley is the best since.

[Aztec Hammer]

If we don't get a QB with our first pick, I'm going to just face up to the fact that it's never going to happen for us.

It looks like it will take some doing for the chips to not fall into place. I'd guess that if we were picking first and Darnold was the consensus number one at the end of the season, he'd go back to school to avoid us.  It's incredibly dangerous to pass on being the first pick, especially if you're someone that is going through a second season slump as it is. But I never underestimate the determination of a player to avoid the Browns at all costs. It's sad but I wouldn't be surprised at all. If that happens, Josh Rosen would take the first spot. He's definitely coming out. He'd be foolish to stay another season with that sorry team around him. He's far from the finished product and is forcing things playing for that team but he is fundamentally clean, nice mechanics and natural in the pocket and going through progressions. A very viable franchise QB prospect IMO. There's even one or two more peripheral guys that could be in the conversation come draft time.

TL;DR: Unless this team miraculously plays its way out of the first pick or two, take one of the LA QBs and don't look back. Sick of bypassing franchise QBs because of overanalysis and finding flaws. Every franchise QB has some.

[DaWg_LB.]

On 10/8/2017 at 7:43 PM, cattleman78 said:

We have the picks to trade up. But do you trade up for a running back? I think it depends what you have to give up.

 

I agree here....there are only 3 positions and one circumstance you trade up for players

1. QB, 2. LT and 3. Pass rusher/DE/OLB and the last occasion is when someone of extreme value slides down....for example what the Browns did for Njoku...who was the 2nd rated TE behind OJ Howard...

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

20 minutes ago, Dogbite said:

I get that part and I said lots of people are wrong lots of times. Doesn't make everyone wrong all the time. I honestly never put any of those guys in Peterson's category. Leonard Fournette was the closest thing to that level. It just so happens I believe the next guys who is the closest thing is in the very next draft so what? Werent Bruce Smith and Reggie White drafted in back to back years? Also just in case you were going to argue Barkley/Peterson. I believe Barkley is the best since Peterson but still not on Peterson's level. Like I said before I believe Peterson has actually miss his potential by a good margin. It may be another 10 years before the NFL sees a prospect at RB like Peterson again. I mean how long did the NFL have to wait before they saw another RB who was even remotely comparable to Jim Brown? Still SaQuan Barkley is the best since.

And this same argument was made (by some) last year.... the year before....etc.

The fact that YOU are making it now doesn't mean much to me, or most others I'm guessing, as you've only been here a few weeks.

[matt27j]

So many positions can be upgraded and there is ammo to do whatever and it'll all work out. Barkley would no doubt improve this team, but a committee of Duke and hopefully Crow would follow the trend of the league and value. RB's don't win championships. Furthermore, committing a significant investment to one may keep your team from even getting there. AP got close with Favre. Will Gurley or Fournette even get close with their respective QBs? RBs will cause the team to win enough games to keep them from landing the QB they need. Playing great defense and having a dominant run game can get you to the playoffs with a competent QB, but with the way the game is called now you don't have a shot at beating ARodge, Brady, etc. when you get there. 

You're better off bolstering your QB with another WR who can give you the explosive plays you need to try to match their passing attack. Or getting better protection to bolster both the run and pass. Or go defense to slow down QBs that way. 

For these reasons the focus will be on WR, QB, and CB. Regardless of who the QB is, having Coleman and another stud at WR would make a huge difference. Like what Thomas and Sanders do for Trevor S or Brock O. Defensively, having a CB that can be a chess piece like Myles can open up the playbook. If the CB isn't there another game changing DL has a similar impact. A future LT. All these positions are significantly more important than RB.

[Aztec Hammer]

It's surprisingly simple to retool an offense and load it with weapons in short time. The Eagles and the Rams come to mind this season alone.

It's the hardest thing in football, definitely in Browns football, to find a QB.

Duke, Njoku and even Coleman if he can avoid an injury plagued career are three very good, ascending weapons. The unit will always look worse than the QB is holding you back. Drafting the top QB next year is the first step. It just so happens that the tank plan has brought us four more picks after that in the first two rounds.

You can only build the roster without the QB for so long before fans either demand the staff to leave and to blow it up all over again or for the new wave of players to assimilate to the losing culture.

Take the most important position on the field at the top of the draft if there's someone you like. He doesn't have to be the perfect prospect. I've been guilty of nitpicking too. I wasn't sold on Wentz. I wasn't (still aren't) sold on Watson. But they've brought an infinitely larger than spark to their franchises than Corey Coleman or Jabrill Peppers. Not because Coleman and Peppers are bad players but simply because their position is the most crucial by miles. It's about time.