College Football / NFL Draft Discussion

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

9 minutes ago, matt27j said:

So many positions can be upgraded and there is ammo to do whatever and it'll all work out. Barkley would no doubt improve this team, but a committee of Duke and hopefully Crow would follow the trend of the league and value. RB's don't win championships. Furthermore, committing a significant investment to one may keep your team from even getting there. AP got close with Favre. Will Gurley or Fournette even get close with their respective QBs? RBs will cause the team to win enough games to keep them from landing the QB they need. Playing great defense and having a dominant run game can get you to the playoffs with a competent QB, but with the way the game is called now you don't have a shot at beating ARodge, Brady, etc. when you get there. 

You're better off bolstering your QB with another WR who can give you the explosive plays you need to try to match their passing attack. Or getting better protection to bolster both the run and pass. Or go defense to slow down QBs that way. 

For these reasons the focus will be on WR, QB, and CB. Regardless of who the QB is, having Coleman and another stud at WR would make a huge difference. Like what Thomas and Sanders do for Trevor S or Brock O. Defensively, having a CB that can be a chess piece like Myles can open up the playbook. If the CB isn't there another game changing DL has a similar impact. A future LT. All these positions are significantly more important than RB.

Yeah, I'm not a "one workhorse RB" type of guy.

Id rather have 3 solid backs working in a rotation.  They can be just as effective and one injury doesn't cause such a huge hole in your gameplan.

Id rather use those elite picks at different positions, but that's just me.

[BrownLeader]

Barkley might end up a frustrating guy to root for. One play, he can look like a slower Barry Sanders, but the next play he'll get shoe stringed for a loss or wrapped up rather easily 1 on 1 by a jag. He's got everything besides blazing speed but there's some inconsistency there too.

It's also going to be an especially deep RB class. I'd have a hard time justifying Barkley at the top of round 1 if I felt confident I could get Rashad Penny/Guice/Ron Jones later in the 1st or at the top of round 2.

[DaWg_LB.]

34 minutes ago, BrownLeader said:

Barkley might end up a frustrating guy to root for. One play, he can look like a slower Barry Sanders, but the next play he'll get shoe stringed for a loss or wrapped up rather easily 1 on 1 by a jag. He's got everything besides blazing speed but there's some inconsistency there too.

It's also going to be an especially deep RB class. I'd have a hard time justifying Barkley at the top of round 1 if I felt confident I could get Rashad Penny/Guice/Ron Jones later in the 1st or at the top of round 2.

I was thinking about this myself....in my first rough draft mock, I had us taking Penny in Round 2 along with 2 WR's...and using our first two round...err...our two first round picks on Derwin James and Minka Fitzpatrick.....and actually run the Big Nickle next year....FS Minka F. with SS. Derwin James and then move Peppers to Slot Safety OR Flip Flop James and Peppers as not to have two rookies deep.......but with the way that JoScho is developing...might be hard to only have 2 LB's on the field at the same time. 

[Aztec Hammer]

14 minutes ago, DaWg_LB. said:

I was thinking about this myself....in my first rough draft mock, I had us taking Penny in Round 2 along with 2 WR's...and using our first two round...err...our two first round picks on Derwin James and Minka Fitzpatrick.....and actually run the Big Nickle next year....FS Minka F. with SS. Derwin James and then move Peppers to Slot Safety OR Flip Flop James and Peppers as not to have two rookies deep.......but with the way that JoScho is developing...might be hard to only have 2 LB's on the field at the same time. 

As much as I like the players, who's the QB?

We have to get one. No half-arseing it with mid round projects. We need to pinpoint who we want at the top of the draft and take him.

[DaWg_LB.]

2 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

As much as I like the players, who's the QB?

We have to get one. No half-arseing it with mid round projects. We need to pinpoint who we want at the top of the draft and take him.

I am not out on Kizer yet.....

I made my first Mock draft based on Kizer developing.....If he show's he's not the man.....then my draft would change...

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

14 minutes ago, DaWg_LB. said:

I am not out on Kizer yet.....

I made my first Mock draft based on Kizer developing.....If he show's he's not the man.....then my draft would change...

Would you pass on Rosen or Darnold if you had the shot at drafting them based on what you've seen thus far?

[Dawgpoun8017]

Look I am not going to sit her and act like he has not struggled because he has bit there is no possible way that anyone can sit here and say that the youngest starting QB in the NFL after 4.5 games will not be successful with any certainty, you cannot do it, especially when he has no semblance of a run game, currently the best WR on the team is the back up RB, wideouts showing unreliable hands. I was on board with him sitting and learning this year but the fact of the matter was he was the obvious choice to start the season, it's not like he is in a Rogers situation and has the liberty of sitting behind favre. We don't have a reliable run game which forces him to probably take on more than he is ready to at this point and he is struggling kind of like we thought he was going to, let us all remember that Vince Young was offensive rookie of the year his rookie season. It is about how kizer grows, what are you gonna do if you take Rosen or darnold #1 this year and they come out and struggle just like kizer has, gonna just go and take a QB again. This is going to be a process and we knew that coming in, we need to build a team as well.

[DaWg_LB.]

7 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Would you pass on Rosen or Darnold if you had the shot at drafting them based on what you've seen thus far?

If were sitting in the right spot and no trade up was needed....Based on what I've seen so far.....I would take a QB

Its a trick question to ask me who I'm taking out of those two Though.....(my favorite QB is Luke Faulk from Wash St. ) so TECHNICALLY I COULD pass on both of those QB's if I thought Luke Faulk was avaliable with our lower 1rst round selection and go with Fitzpatrick and Faulk  (But I understand the Spirit of the question)

Same question back to you?

And Who's currently your favorite QB potentially coming out next year?

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

4 minutes ago, DaWg_LB. said:

If were sitting in the right spot and no trade up was needed....Based on what I've seen so far.....I would take a QB

Its a trick question to ask me who I'm taking out of those two Though.....(my favorite QB is Luke Faulk from Wash St. ) so TECHNICALLY I COULD pass on both of those QB's if I thought Luke Faulk was avaliable with our lower 1rst round selection and go with Fitzpatrick and Faulk  (But I understand the Spirit of the question)

Same question back to you?

And Who's currently your favorite QB potentially coming out next year?

Man, I haven't watched either a ton, but at this point probably Rosen.

He doesn't have much to work with around him and when he's on he absolutely slices defenses up. 

[Aztec Hammer]

19 minutes ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

Look I am not going to sit her and act like he has not struggled because he has bit there is no possible way that anyone can sit here and say that the youngest starting QB in the NFL after 4.5 games will not be successful with any certainty, you cannot do it, especially when he has no semblance of a run game, currently the best WR on the team is the back up RB, wideouts showing unreliable hands. I was on board with him sitting and learning this year but the fact of the matter was he was the obvious choice to start the season, it's not like he is in a Rogers situation and has the liberty of sitting behind favre. We don't have a reliable run game which forces him to probably take on more than he is ready to at this point and he is struggling kind of like we thought he was going to, let us all remember that Vince Young was offensive rookie of the year his rookie season. It is about how kizer grows, what are you gonna do if you take Rosen or darnold #1 this year and they come out and struggle just like kizer has, gonna just go and take a QB again. This is going to be a process and we knew that coming in, we need to build a team as well.

To me at least, the difference would be that I was high on both Darnold and Rosen as QB prospects before they were taken. So if they struggle, I put up with it because fundamentally, my view of them is strong.

Unfortunately I never liked Kizer as a prospect and what I'm seeing now isn't the growing pains of a great prospect, it's just a poor QB prospect playing poorly. I don't particularly see much growth potential because I don't like his base as a QB in the first place. Physical ability and size is nice and all, but it means little if I feel the man just doesn't have the potential to be an NFL QB. 

Its harsh on Kizer because he is still a rookie, but it's how I feel about him.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

35 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

To me at least, the difference would be that I was high on both Darnold and Rosen as QB prospects before they were taken. So if they struggle, I put up with it because fundamentally, my view of them is strong.

Unfortunately I never liked Kizer as a prospect and what I'm seeing now isn't the growing pains of a great prospect, it's just a poor QB prospect playing poorly. I don't particularly see much growth potential because I don't like his base as a QB in the first place. Physical ability and size is nice and all, but it means little if I feel the man just doesn't have the potential to be an NFL QB. 

Its harsh on Kizer because he is still a rookie, but it's how I feel about him.

I also don't think it means Kizer's career is over just because we draft a qb at 1. 

Kizer can still improve his game and he'll undoubtably get another shot.

[MWil23]

For the Browns, it's pretty obvious about our needs going forward, and I'll put them into a few groups:

If we address these and HIT on them, we're instant contenders/will be within a couple of years

1. QB: Needed a Franchise QB since Bernie Kosar was in his prime in the late 80's.

2. WR: Ours are probably the worst/close to the worst in the entire NFL. Coleman has been hurt, but even if he's healthy and produces like they hoped when they drafted him, they still need a true #1 play-making WR on the outside who is a game changer, who can move the sticks on 3rd down, and who can be a legit Red Zone Target.

3. RB: I like Duke as a spell/3rd down/slot WR type running back, but we need an every down guy. Crow has been putrid this year. He has no explosiveness or vision, and he's a malcontent.

These are obvious needs that need to be addressed. A couple of stopgap players in free agency could help until we can address them in the draft in a year or two:

4. CB: Ours are horrendous, aside from McCourty, who has been relatively solid

5. FS: Right now we are playing peppers literally 30 yards off of the line of scrimmage. We need a true ball hawking FS and need to move Peppers into the box.

Luxury picks/let's hope that a late rounder could come out of nowhere:

6. RT: Shon Coleman has shown flashes of being serviceable, but it would be nice to upgrade here. This would be a luxury that should happen well after the first five are addressed.

7. C: J.C. Tretter has shown glimpses of being solid and glimpses of looking overwhelmed. I like him, but he would be replaceable going forward.

[bosko1616]

Early Mock draft 

1. Josh Rosen QB 

1. Tarvarus McFadden CB 

1. Christian Kirk WR 

2. Auden Tate WR

2. Sony Micheal RB

[MSURacerDT55]

18 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

To me at least, the difference would be that I was high on both Darnold and Rosen as QB prospects before they were taken. So if they struggle, I put up with it because fundamentally, my view of them is strong.

Unfortunately I never liked Kizer as a prospect and what I'm seeing now isn't the growing pains of a great prospect, it's just a poor QB prospect playing poorly. I don't particularly see much growth potential because I don't like his base as a QB in the first place. Physical ability and size is nice and all, but it means little if I feel the man just doesn't have the potential to be an NFL QB. 

Its harsh on Kizer because he is still a rookie, but it's how I feel about him.

Explain, I obviously don't agree. Not saying he will be Brady but that's not what I've seen in these games. The kid has been making decisive decisions, hitting guys in the chest with the ball, or in the hands, WITH ZIP, and when he does hold on to the ball, its because the WR is taking all day to get out of their break. Hey man, I'm going to need you to explain the bolded.

[Aztec Hammer]

37 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Explain, I obviously don't agree. Not saying he will be Brady but that's not what I've seen in these games. The kid has been making decisive decisions, hitting guys in the chest with the ball, or in the hands, WITH ZIP, and when he does hold on to the ball, its because the WR is taking all day to get out of their break. Hey man, I'm going to need you to explain the bolded.

The thing is your description of his play does make him sound like he's been the ideal QB, and that any of the bad isn't on him. Perhaps I'm being too harsh on him being slow to make reads and being clumsy in the pocket; maybe those are just rookie tendencies but turning over the ball in the redzone is inexcusable. That's not on being a rookie nor the play calling. It's sloppy and poor.

Hogan came in and instantly sparked the team. Kizer's not ready. I personally have doubts he'll ever be but I think both my current viewpoint and yours are fair as it stands. It's far too early to know the final result.