Group Consensus Mock - Rd 7A Winner Marquez Valdes-Scantling

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, JLambert58 said:

NFL is a rough game.  Staying healthy (or performing like it) is part of being a successful player.  He'll be on the team another two years, at least, so I won't write him off either, but this year is going to big for him.  No more excuses.  

I mean, you and others sound like you are being the opposite of apologetic.  I dunno what to call it, but it's like you guys are looking for reasons to hate him rather than acknowledge the reality of whats happened in his career.

I'm all for saying a guy has to stay healthy.  But 2016 he had that hernia surgery.  What should he do?  Not get the surgery?  We don't know what really happened to his shoulder, but obviously that effect his season.

[3rivers]

12 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I'm not talking to that last part at all.  @jebrick said he thought Dupree had 3 different coaches in 3 years.  He did in college and it's part of why he left school early, because he was about to have his 4th.  I'm adding that he's never had a full healthy offseason to work on his game, which is why I'm not willing to write him off yet.

I respect your patience, many fans could apply more of that. Do you think that as an edge rusher, dupree will never become a force due to being slow off the snap? I don't care for garbage stats either, I am talking about against playoff teams and legit OT's.  I see that as the worst possible downside any edge rusher could have, and doubt if it can be fixed.  Hence the reason I would like to see them try 4-3 with him blitzing, I could see that working.

[JLambert58]

2 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I mean, you and others sound like you are being the opposite of apologetic.  I dunno what to call it, but it's like you guys are looking for reasons to hate him rather than acknowledge the reality of whats happened in his career.

I'm all for saying a guy has to stay healthy.  But 2016 he had that hernia surgery.  What should he do?  Not get the surgery?  We don't know what really happened to his shoulder, but obviously that effect his season.

 I defended the hell out of Jason Worilds.  I'm just not feeling it with Dupree.  With that much raw ability, he should have shown more by now.  Hey, I hope you're right and he gets healthy and finds his groove.  Not hating on him, just calling it like I see it.  

[3rivers]

1 minute ago, JLambert58 said:

 I defended the hell out of Jason Worilds.  I'm just not feeling it with Dupree.  With that much raw ability, he should have shown more by now.  Hey, I hope you're right and he gets healthy and finds his groove.  Not hating on him, just calling it like I see it.  

I would much prefer Worilds instead of dupree for OLB here.   While I was critical of dupree based on his play here, what really did it was how he conducted himself when Harrison got released. Then how he played in the playoff game and he got owned a few times . 

 

I am in agreement with JL58 bold. 

[warfelg]

4 minutes ago, JLambert58 said:

 I defended the hell out of Jason Worilds.  I'm just not feeling it with Dupree.  With that much raw ability, he should have shown more by now.  Hey, I hope you're right and he gets healthy and finds his groove.  Not hating on him, just calling it like I see it.  

And there's my difference.  Worilds was healthy (like Jarvis) and never improved enough year to year.  The actual tape on Dupree shows he;s being better, but he's just not able to refine every thing being that he's working on coming back from an injury while working on those things.

[JLambert58]

2 minutes ago, warfelg said:

And there's my difference.  Worilds was healthy (like Jarvis) and never improved enough year to year.  The actual tape on Dupree shows he;s being better, but he's just not able to refine every thing being that he's working on coming back from an injury while working on those things.

Worilds did improve year to year.  In fact, the Steelers were prepared to give him a new contract IIRC.  

I don't see that Dupree's getting markedly better.  Sure his sack numbers were up a bit, but that's not the whole story. 

[3rivers]

Just now, warfelg said:

And there's my difference.  Worilds was healthy (like Jarvis) and never improved enough year to year.  The actual tape on Dupree shows he;s being better, but he's just not able to refine every thing being that he's working on coming back from an injury while working on those things.

Lets hope you are seeing a real progress or potential. I couldn't tolerate many of his rushes, just a wash out from what I saw. I was hoping they would drop him into coverage, unbearable to watch as a pass rusher.  4-3 blitzing LB, he could be more effective there and at 270Lbs and with his athleticism ,  it could add pain to RB's and QB's which this team needs.  Timmons and Brwon were good transition to ILB, maybe dupree is next.

I am not being overly critical of your opinion, but despite what some think of PFF, dupree was 3rd worst and to me that indicates he has quite a ways to go especially for your optimism to be justified.  There are no concerns with dupree's effort, being in shape, strong etc  and ready to go this season. Now it's just wait and see, and we all want this to be his break out year.  Dupree isn't another Jarvis,  lets be thankful for that I guess. 

[warfelg]

3 minutes ago, JLambert58 said:

Worilds did improve year to year.  In fact, the Steelers were prepared to give him a new contract IIRC.  

I don't see that Dupree's getting markedly better.  Sure his sack numbers were up a bit, but that's not the whole story. 

Exactly.  He's become a really good coverage LB. @3rivers Is right.  If he played in a 4-3 over (like Seattle, Atlanta, or Jacksonville) and he was the strong side OLB he could have a good impact.

[3rivers]

3 minutes ago, JLambert58 said:

Worilds did improve year to year.  In fact, the Steelers were prepared to give him a new contract IIRC.  

I don't see that Dupree's getting markedly better.  Sure his sack numbers were up a bit, but that's not the whole story. 

Worilds had chance , was better with more playing time. He might have lost interest, might have seen through all the head injuries etc, and saw life after the game and good for him.  He had injuries and other possible excuses, I never understood the hate, but if we were to compare him to his recent predecessors , then I can see the problems with understanding. I doubt we ever have a OLB tandem like Harrison / Woodley 2007-2011 .  Those 2 were dominant , maybe some here didn't realize that back then.

[JLambert58]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Exactly.  He's become a really good coverage LB. @3rivers Is right.  If he played in a 4-3 over (like Seattle, Atlanta, or Jacksonville) and he was the strong side OLB he could have a good impact.

Probably his best attribute.  How's he been doing setting the edge?

[3rivers]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Exactly.  He's become a really good coverage LB. @3rivers Is right.  If he played in a 4-3 over (like Seattle, Atlanta, or Jacksonville) and he was the strong side OLB he could have a good impact.

can we make that switch? I have been wanting this for years since we lost our dominant NT, league more passing and we don't have the edge rusher(s).  I could see dupree doing well as the blitzing LB in a 4-3. IMO he will never be a threat vs a decent OT one on one, just too slow off the snap.   Heyward would be the LDE and a good one . Tuitt/Hargrave/Settle inside with Watt at RDE. 

[jebrick]

Worilds was crap his first 3 years.  He had an amazing 1st step then nothing. 

If Dupree can stay healthy he can  do well.  38 games and 14.5 sacks. He is still thinking too much. 

[3rivers]

1 minute ago, JLambert58 said:

Probably his best attribute.  How's he been doing setting the edge?

I saw him get squashed vs the jags, that was bad.  Not sure about other games, he might be decent.  I think in our scheme, while setting the edge is important, in todays game the pass rush is more important and dupree is lacking here.  Keep Watt on the right side, and Heyward as the LDE. Who will get more pressure on the left side, Heyward or dupree?  If dupree doesn't show drastic improvement (and he won't), then I am hoping by mid season they make the change but I doubt it will happen . 

[3rivers]

3 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Worilds was crap his first 3 years.  He had an amazing 1st step then nothing. 

If Dupree can stay healthy he can  do well.  38 games and 14.5 sacks. He is still thinking too much. 

I hope you are right, but I am not sold on stats, I have to watch and from what I have watched (painfully) , I have seen a player that is too slow off the snap and is limited but that and has stats  that are garbage variety.  If there was a stat for sacks under 3seconds, under 4 seconds, vs starting good OT, etc, he would, well grade near where PFF graded him.  I hope I am wrong as much as anything but how does a player "learn" how to get faster off the snap?  He doesn't have counter arsenal either, it just appears like too much to overcome at this point. Thankfully he does work out and has effort, and maybe this offseason everything will go well and he can make us eat crow. I don't doubt his effort, not another jarvis or bruce davis , lets make that clear.  What a waste of a RD3 davis was, just one of the worst in recent time for us

[JLambert58]

Good lord, now we have a 3 Way Tie?  Somebody come in and tip this thing.