Official Pistons Thread: Offseason

[catcheryea]

2 hours ago, redsoxsuck05 said:

I feel like Miller's skillset is way more scarce on your team than Scoot, who seems seems similar to Ivey as an ultra athletic penetrator with a shaky jumpshot. When was the last time you had two-way wing...Tayshaun Prince?

we need to first dispel this idea that ivey has a shaky jumpshot. from december to the end the year he shot 46.4% in the midrange, better than bridges, sga, and pg, and just barely below butler and fox. he also shot 35% from 3, which was just below sharpe, who no one is claiming has a shaky jumper

second, you can find wings who can shoot. it's like literally the most abundant form of role player. you can't just go out and find primary ballhandlers who can run an offense and bend defenses to make plays for his teammates

third, miller isn't some lockdown, jaden mcdaniels type of wing and he's also not going to be a rim protector in any way. almost all of his current and future value is tied to his shooting and maybe his off the dribble creation, and you could argue the latter is about the same level of question mark as scoot's shot

[Sllim Pickens]

What is everyones realistic ideal offseason.  Aside from just adding Webby at 1, what would you like to see done trade/free agent wise and in the draft assuming our pick is 2-4?  The free agent market is thin with standouts we could go after at the 3/4 and we would have to make some trades to have the space to do it anyways.  Any guys on the trade block that you see as a solid upgrade for us? 

 

[catcheryea]

4 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

What is everyones realistic ideal offseason.  Aside from just adding Webby at 1, what would you like to see done trade/free agent wise and in the draft assuming our pick is 2-4?  The free agent market is thin with standouts we could go after at the 3/4 and we would have to make some trades to have the space to do it anyways.  Any guys on the trade block that you see as a solid upgrade for us? 

 

unless they get a top 2 pick or they decide not to play killian, wiseman, or bagley next year, this roster absolutely doesn't need any more rotation guards or bigs. troy said it the other day (he made it to the next chapter in gming for dummies!) they need to find more wing defenders. draft miller, walker, or hendricks at 3/4/5. i'm not sure if there's a reasonable contract you can give cam johnson that doesn't get matched but i'd try that at least. i'd also try to take a wing in the 2nd round and if you can move bogey at or before the draft for another 1st that's something i would consider. hell if they do that and still pick another wing at 31, and walk out with something like walker, whitehead, and walsh that sounds pretty nice

if none of that happens and they just end up with the two picks and some cheap free agents i think i'd bring omoruyi back just because he does things nobody else on the team does. that gives you position groups of

cade - ivey - burks - hayes

bogey - 1st - livers - 2nd - omoruyi

duren - stew - bagley - wiseman

which obviously isn't a good team, but at least you have a chance at matching up and going big or small. i think the next bridge to cross if they're serious about winning is realizing that killian and especially either bagley or wiseman aren't or shouldn't be in the rotation every night. you can't play 4 bigs if 3 of them can't play together on either end

and if you draft walker or hendricks who are big wings/forwards but definitely 4s, that makes it 5 guys you're trying to cram in 2 spots (hey now!). something has to budge somewhere

i like livers and thought he was pretty misused on both ends this year but he was pretty bad on top of constantly being hurt so he's probably playing for his job next year and could maybe end of the 4th guy at that position depending on how the offseason goes

my dream scenario is taking hendricks and the core is cade - ivey - idk figure it out - hendricks - duren. that gives you three very good to elite athletes, three guys who i think can be plus defenders, two rim protectors, rebounding, switchability, and size. if cade can fix his shot, you've got three average to good shooters, and two or three good passers. you can play small and big with the same lineup, if you need defense at the 3, you do that without killing your spacing, and if you need shooting at the 3, you can do that without killing your defense. (i love taylor hendricks)

[Sllim Pickens]

I'm along those same lines and thought about Cam Johnson and how much he would fit perfectly here.  But the Nets likely will match anything worthwhile so he would have to push his way out and likely do a sign and trade.  Which I would gladly give them Wiseman/Bagely and anything else needed to match salaries other than Cade, Ivey and Duren.  There aren't very many other free agents I am high on so would prefer to either trade for a disgruntled player or just make sure we have flexibility next year by not getting into any long term deals. Kyle Kuzma would be a solid fit at the 3/4 but I am guessing he will get more than I am wanting to pay.  It would be much easier if Bogey was traded.  I wish Miles Bridges wasn't a POS because he would be perfect for us but don't want the baggae that comes with him right now.  

I think one (at least) of Bagley or Wiseman need to be moved for a SF/PF who can shoot.  We definitely need to space the floor better and there should never be one of those two on the court with Duren.  Given Wiseman is the most direct competition to minutes for Duren I would lean towards moving him but not sure what we would get at this point.  I think he has more value than when we got him but he still isnt really worth his contract.  

Draft wise I agree and have Miller, Walker, Hendricks and Whitmore in the mix at a pick from 3-5.  The Thompsons are intriguing but just dont trust them or their shots enough at this point.  I would love to grab another mid/late 1st via trade and grab Whitehead, Leonard Miller, GG Jackson, or Brice Sensabaugh.  Then at 31 grab someone like Trayce Jackson-Davis, Keyontae Johnson, or even Tshiebwe.   I know these guys aren't as much upside plays as just guys I think will be solid depth and spot starters.  

 

 

[General Tso]

Saw a trade idea somewhere else.. What about trading Wiseman for Josh Green from Dallas? They need a big that can rebound, we need a wing.

[Sllim Pickens]

5 minutes ago, General Tso said:

Saw a trade idea somewhere else.. What about trading Wiseman for Josh Green from Dallas? They need a big that can rebound, we need a wing.

I think it makes some sense but would actually want more.  He is a good shooter but doesn't do anything else, especially play D.  I feel like there are better options and it would put us in a similar spot as to when we had Bey there.  

[General Tso]

5 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I think it makes some sense but would actually want more.  He is a good shooter but doesn't do anything else, especially play D.  I feel like there are better options and it would put us in a similar spot as to when we had Bey there.  

The other one would be Trey Murphy from NO, but I don't see them trading him.

Let's see what teams flame out in the first round, maybe one of those will want to blow things up.

[Sllim Pickens]

If the Bulls blow it up, or decide to make some changes with not keeping Vucevic, I wonder if they would move Patrick Williams for Wiseman.  He would be a solid 4 next to Duren to help on D and outside shooting.  I think he would be a better version of Stewart as a more natural 4 in todays game opposed to us trying to make Stewart a stretch 4.  

Obviously if Toronto makes OG available they would have a ton of suitors but he would be perfect at the 3 for us.  I'd be willing to offer a decent haul for him although I dont think we have many tradable picks at this point. And if we end up in the 4 or 5 pick I would include that if needed and try to move Bogey + for another later first.  

Dame mentioned he wants vets to win now and not more youth.  We could potentially move Bagley and Bogey to them for their first  or if Dame wants the vets that bad we will take Sharpe lol.  

Maybe the Thunder would move Poku for cheap since they are getting too crowded and Chet will take all of his minutes next year.  Wiseman would be a true center that would fit well next to Chet and Poku offers more D and outside shooting than Bagely does.  Its not a world beater move but its better pieces in the puzzle.  

[catcheryea]

6 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I'm along those same lines and thought about Cam Johnson and how much he would fit perfectly here.  But the Nets likely will match anything worthwhile so he would have to push his way out and likely do a sign and trade.  Which I would gladly give them Wiseman/Bagely and anything else needed to match salaries other than Cade, Ivey and Duren.  There aren't very many other free agents I am high on so would prefer to either trade for a disgruntled player or just make sure we have flexibility next year by not getting into any long term deals. Kyle Kuzma would be a solid fit at the 3/4 but I am guessing he will get more than I am wanting to pay.  It would be much easier if Bogey was traded.  I wish Miles Bridges wasn't a POS because he would be perfect for us but don't want the baggae that comes with him right now.  

I think one (at least) of Bagley or Wiseman need to be moved for a SF/PF who can shoot.  We definitely need to space the floor better and there should never be one of those two on the court with Duren.  Given Wiseman is the most direct competition to minutes for Duren I would lean towards moving him but not sure what we would get at this point.  I think he has more value than when we got him but he still isnt really worth his contract.  

Draft wise I agree and have Miller, Walker, Hendricks and Whitmore in the mix at a pick from 3-5.  The Thompsons are intriguing but just dont trust them or their shots enough at this point.  I would love to grab another mid/late 1st via trade and grab Whitehead, Leonard Miller, GG Jackson, or Brice Sensabaugh.  Then at 31 grab someone like Trayce Jackson-Davis, Keyontae Johnson, or even Tshiebwe.   I know these guys aren't as much upside plays as just guys I think will be solid depth and spot starters.  

 

 

it's going to be really hard to convince someone to take bagley or wiseman . it's more doable if bagley has a non-guaranteed last year or a team option for 24-25 but alas. if i had to choose one i'd actually rather keep bagley because he'll actually make contact on screens and he has some grasp of how to play with without the ball and won't post up directly in the path of a driving guard. if you wan't to just have a big who can play 16 minutes and generate offense for himself he's not actually completely useless. he can't stay healthy but that's a different issue.

kuzma would be an interesting size/skill addition but he's only ever played behind bona fide all stars and i really don't want another jerami grant situation where we're paying him $25 million and he won't accept that his role is not the primary or secondary option

i'm just about all the way out on whitmore. i think he shot great for the u18s and obviously he's a great athlete but i really don't buy him being 6'7 and he is a terrible, terrible passer. he's got more upside than saddiq ever did as a creator, but two and a half years of watching saddiq not be able to make a single passing read and constantly stop the ball has scarred me about those types of players

really anybody who can add functional size and athleticism is sorely needed on the roster, but if they also understand how to play within a team that moves them up like 3 imaginary tiers for me

4 hours ago, General Tso said:

Saw a trade idea somewhere else.. What about trading Wiseman for Josh Green from Dallas? They need a big that can rebound, we need a wing.

the second the woj tweet hits that dallas is acquiring wiseman, luka is demanding a trade. wiseman isn't ready to play winning basketball in any role and that's fine if you're us and you're trying to win but fine with losing some games for the sake of development or whatever. but dallas isn't trying to win, they need to win, and wiseman doesn't move the needle at all for them. i think he's here to stay through next year at the very least

3 hours ago, General Tso said:

The other one would be Trey Murphy from NO, but I don't see them trading him.

Let's see what teams flame out in the first round, maybe one of those will want to blow things up.

yeah i would love trey but there's no way new orleans gives him up after the year he had. he's actually kinda loosely similar to hendricks. hendricks is bigger and a better defender but murphy is a better shooter and bouncier

3 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

If the Bulls blow it up, or decide to make some changes with not keeping Vucevic, I wonder if they would move Patrick Williams for Wiseman.  He would be a solid 4 next to Duren to help on D and outside shooting.  I think he would be a better version of Stewart as a more natural 4 in todays game opposed to us trying to make Stewart a stretch 4.  

Obviously if Toronto makes OG available they would have a ton of suitors but he would be perfect at the 3 for us.  I'd be willing to offer a decent haul for him although I dont think we have many tradable picks at this point. And if we end up in the 4 or 5 pick I would include that if needed and try to move Bogey + for another later first.  

Dame mentioned he wants vets to win now and not more youth.  We could potentially move Bagley and Bogey to them for their first  or if Dame wants the vets that bad we will take Sharpe lol.  

Maybe the Thunder would move Poku for cheap since they are getting too crowded and Chet will take all of his minutes next year.  Wiseman would be a true center that would fit well next to Chet and Poku offers more D and outside shooting than Bagely does.  Its not a world beater move but its better pieces in the puzzle.  

similar to the josh green thing, if they keep lavine and demar, then they're still in a win now mode and wiseman actively hinders that. or if they totally blow it up, i think williams is one of the few guys they keep around. i guess they didn't want to give him up for grant last year so they must like him a lot and he's better than wiseman now and has a much more defined role and easier path to being a contributor on a good team than wiseman even if williams doesn't hit his absolute peak. i ******* love duren and i wouldn't have wanted the grant trade to work out any other was than how it did but i was definitely watching last night and thinking how much we need a player like him

og would be a great fit but i'm sure as hell not giving up 3 1sts or whatever masai was demanding for him. actually the only future 1st we can offer right now is a 2029 and i have a strange feeling that won't get it done

i think portland, and dame specifically, is looking more for a siakam type than a bogey type. add in what we thought they would give up for grant vs what they actually gave up and that makes me think there's little chance of completely ripping them off unless they get wildly desperate

presti strikes me as the absolute last guy who would trade for someone like wiseman just because they don't have a real center. he very easily could've had chet, duren, and williams last year, but he seems very committed to rolling out chet at the 5 with 3 or 4 other ball handlers and just getting freaky with it

[catcheryea]

don't know what's up with a porzingis contract extension but if troy is dead set on playing with two bigs, there's his answer

then we just hold our breaths every time he's on the floor that he doesn't get hurt

[Sllim Pickens]

8 hours ago, catcheryea said:

don't know what's up with a porzingis contract extension but if troy is dead set on playing with two bigs, there's his answer

then we just hold our breaths every time he's on the floor that he doesn't get hurt

Would have to be a sign and trade type deal right?  He is definitely a better fit on the team than Wiseman and Bagely.  But again as you said, someone would have to want to take on one or both which puts them in tank mode.  I think Washington would be smart to do that and move Beal for as much as they can and start over since they aren't going anywhere with Beal and he just keeps getting older.  They could send him to Portland for Sharpe and some picks and let him and Dame try a run together and then they can swap Porzingas for Wiseman and a future pick. 

This would be if we don't get the top pick in the draft which I am fully not expecting to at this point given that since they went to the new lottery format, the worst team has never had the top pick. 

[beekay414]

 

[catcheryea]

6 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

 

going through *gestures broadly* that once was enough

[beekay414]

Just now, catcheryea said:

going through *gestures broadly* that once was enough

Figured you'd like that lol

[beekay414]