Forge Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 11 hours ago, Kiwibrown said: 3 rings would have to generate consideration. Why? I mean, we aren't generating discussion for John Taylor. He happened to play for a good team, that's all. Havings rings is a horrible argument for Edelman's enshrinement or to give him real consideration. He's never been considered one of the best receivers in the league. No all pro teams that I'm aware of. Has he ever made a pro bowl? He has two one thousand yard seasons. Even adding in 3 more seasons and being generous and saying he hits 270 receptions, 3300 yards, and 10 touchdowns, his numbers are essentially Amani Toomer's...and maybe not as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazStandard Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Harrison, Wilfork, Seymour, McGinest and Vinatieri are the only people that will ever get even in the conversation for the HoF, and most of those won't make it. Harrison deserves it, but he's competing with Lynch, Dawkins, Reed and Polamalu at safety, and you have to say he was the worst of that great crop at S. Wilfork was probably consistently the best - he didn't drop off like McGinest or play patchy like Seymour - but NTs never get the big numbers. Seymour and McGinest never put up the huge sack numbers of their contemporaries, and Vinatieri is a kicker. If anything the Patriots dynasty shows the value of having a lot of decent-to-good players, over having a few stars with JAGs filling the gaps. From the more recent batch, Edelman has virtually no shot, too many great WRs around, and Gostowski is a fantastic player (lead the league in points 5 years in a row), but has never outshone his predecessor in terms of big-time moments. Gronkowski will get in - no doubt - the only question is if his body holds up long enough to make him a first ballot guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 34 minutes ago, ChazStandard said: McGinest never put up the huge sack numbers of their contemporaries He does still hold the record for most sacks in the postseason for a career (16) and most sacks in a single postseason game (4.5) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Forge said: Why? I mean, we aren't generating discussion for John Taylor. He happened to play for a good team, that's all. Havings rings is a horrible argument for Edelman's enshrinement or to give him real consideration. He's never been considered one of the best receivers in the league. No all pro teams that I'm aware of. Has he ever made a pro bowl? He has two one thousand yard seasons. Even adding in 3 more seasons and being generous and saying he hits 270 receptions, 3300 yards, and 10 touchdowns, his numbers are essentially Amani Toomer's...and maybe not as good. Lynn Swann had two 800 yard seasons, why is he in the HOF? He had a relatively short career without any big statistical years and he made it. If championships isn't the answer I'd like to hear what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Just now, Thomas5737 said: Lynn Swann had two 800 yard seasons, why is he in the HOF? He had a relatively short career without any big statistical years and he made it. If championships isn't the answer I'd like to hear what is. He shouldn't be, and there's probably a good chunk of nostalgia and sentiment in his selection. Though I'd say that I think Swann was a much bigger "name" in the 70's than Edelman ever has been in his career and I think that's part of what sparks that. Nothing to back that up, just my own opinion. Edelman has also played in a far different era, but I don't know how you compare that. Also, his selection occurred in 2001, and I think that there has been a shifting philosophy in the way "legacies" are viewed over the past 15 years in most major sports. I don't think that the perspective is the same. His selection is a mistake (to me), but just because he's in doesn't mean you should repeat that. Ray Guy is in as well, should we put in Andy Lee? When Edelman comes up, they should look at it, say, "yeah, he had a nice career...who's next?" If Edelman were close to a hall of famer - something more akin to Andre Johnson or someone in that realm, and then he showed up in the super bowl and had those moments, I think that could be something that sways a decision, but at this point in time, or even 3 years in the future? No way. He's had a nice career, with nice moments, but the only thing that separates him from Amani Toomer or Eric Moulds is that he got to play for the Patriots during a dynasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywlker32 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 17 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Lynn Swann had two 800 yard seasons, why is he in the HOF? He had a relatively short career without any big statistical years and he made it. If championships isn't the answer I'd like to hear what is. Many don't believe he should be in anyways, but he still had double the TDs and a couple pro bowl selections and a first team all pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Championships should be a boost to get you in, but not a discussion starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 3 hours ago, Forge said: He shouldn't be, and there's probably a good chunk of nostalgia and sentiment in his selection. Though I'd say that I think Swann was a much bigger "name" in the 70's than Edelman ever has been in his career and I think that's part of what sparks that. Nothing to back that up, just my own opinion. Edelman has also played in a far different era, but I don't know how you compare that. Also, his selection occurred in 2001, and I think that there has been a shifting philosophy in the way "legacies" are viewed over the past 15 years in most major sports. I don't think that the perspective is the same. His selection is a mistake (to me), but just because he's in doesn't mean you should repeat that. Ray Guy is in as well, should we put in Andy Lee? When Edelman comes up, they should look at it, say, "yeah, he had a nice career...who's next?" If Edelman were close to a hall of famer - something more akin to Andre Johnson or someone in that realm, and then he showed up in the super bowl and had those moments, I think that could be something that sways a decision, but at this point in time, or even 3 years in the future? No way. He's had a nice career, with nice moments, but the only thing that separates him from Amani Toomer or Eric Moulds is that he got to play for the Patriots during a dynasty. I don't disagree, he has no prayer of getting in the Hall but history has shown that being on championship teams does give a player a boost. If he does have a few great years and a couple huge games in the SB he could get consideration even though he isn't even a top tier WR. Not saying I agree with it, but the voters like names and if his gets big after a heroic SB game it could change the storyline of who he is/was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Championships unless you are the qb should only count if you played much better in the postseason than the regular season. Willie, Ty Law, and Mankins deserve consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey5djh Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 On 8/8/2017 at 11:44 PM, Forge said: Kinda crazy to think that Vinateiri may have the best shot as a kicker. Especially since Anderson has opened that door for the position again I came in here to pretty much post this. Vinateiri has the best shot IMO followed by Rodney Harrison. Ty Law deserves some consideration as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 The most likely ones, outside of Brady and Beli, are Ty Law, Adam Vinatieri, and Robert Kraft. No one else is likely. Seymour and Wilfork may get to the semifinalist list, but that's probably as far as they ever get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Edelman is one of the great postseason performers in history but he's nowhere close to a hall of fame player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom cody Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Brady, Gronk, Bellichek, Vinateri. Possibly Wilfork as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 On 8/9/2017 at 10:12 AM, Kiwibrown said: Julian Edelman hs made HOF type plays, without having HOF type bulk stats. If he has 3 more years and another superbowl I think he should warrant consideration. No. Just no. Edelman is already past 30 and doesn't even have 5000 receiving yards. He's never been even close to sniffing the crown of being considered the best receiver in the NFL. He's a cog in the machine that is Brady/Belicheck. Just like Patten, Givens, and Brown were. The HOF is for dominant players. Edelman making a few plays here and there in the playoffs with maybe the best QB ever shouldn't warrant him consideration. That's a pretty terrible argument. That's like saying 49ers WR Mike Wilson should be in because he won 4 Super Bowls with Joe Montana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 On 8/10/2017 at 1:58 AM, Thomas5737 said: Lynn Swann had two 800 yard seasons, why is he in the HOF? He had a relatively short career without any big statistical years and he made it. If championships isn't the answer I'd like to hear what is. Different era. Different standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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