SPEED MOCK: Vikings OTC

[Kparty15]

I voted yes for a trade down.  My top two choices here by far were Frank Ragnow and Billy Price.

That being said I think that our mock is going to be way off because I can't possibly see 5 interior OL getting drafted in the first round Quenton Nelson, Isaiah Wynn, James Daniels, Will Hernandez, and Ragnow/Price.

[Klomp]

2 hours ago, VikeManDan said:

33 and 35 for 30, BOOM we get Ragnow and another player.

If this was the NBA, I could see something like this. But the value doesn't line up in the NFL world.

Moving down 2 spots would only net you a mid-5th. Moving down 5 spots would net you a 4th.

30 for 35+114 is where the value comes out in a deal with CLE. But why would they trade up for a third 1st?

Another idea would be 30 with IND for 37+105.

[JDBrocks]

2 hours ago, disaacs said:

Then why draft any OL?  According to that logic, no OL that they will draft will ever progress, so why bother?  Even if they are "ready" to start day 1 and "technically sound", unless they improve, they'll probably be out of the league in 4-5 years or be barely competent, ala Matt Kalil.

This is such a bad argument. Why draft any OL? We saw exactly why last year with Elflein. When a guy with good technique that needs to get stronger or learn a new scheme is drafted, you don’t need to wonder if the guy can pick up on fundamentals AND the other nuances of the NFL.

I’m not sure where I suggested, or which part of my statement suggested, that no drafted OL will ever develop. The Vikings have not been good at developing drafted OL with poor technique.

[SemperFeist]

29 minutes ago, Klomp said:

If this was the NBA, I could see something like this. But the value doesn't line up in the NFL world.

Moving down 2 spots would only net you a mid-5th. Moving down 5 spots would net you a 4th.

30 for 35+114 is where the value comes out in a deal with CLE. But why would they trade up for a third 1st?

Another idea would be 30 with IND for 37+105.

The value would really depend on how badly the want the player they’re trying to trade for. 

[Boda]

I went with Goedert & no trade down.  With as many interior OL that went in the 1st its highly likely another good one will still be on the board for us in the 2nd whether that be at our spot or in a trade up to ensure who we want.  I don't think the same can be said for the TE position.  For myself there is Goedert & Gesicki and than a drop off.

[Krauser]

Voted Ragnow.

Think he's a very good OL prospect, comparable to Hernandez among the best who might still be on the board at #30. He's a great athlete for the position (RAS 9.85 is elite), a team leader, a scheme fit and a local kid. We know the Vikings are interested: https://www.twincities.com/2018/04/25/chanhassen-grad-frank-ragnow-says-being-drafted-by-vikings-would-be-special/

Quote

The 6-foot-5, 315-pound Ragnow played center and guard in college, and the Vikings have a need at guard. They’ve spent plenty of time evaluating Ragnow.

“I’ve talked to them on the phone countless times,’’ Ragnow said. “I had an official interview with them at the combine (in February), I had a top-30 visit with them (this month).”

Ragnow said most of his phone conversations have been with Minnesota offensive line coach Tony Sparano.

“I guess he’s a fan of mine, so we’ll see,” Ragnow said.

More than anything else this year, I think the Vikings need a day one starter on the OL, and more importantly a top quality OL -- at any position -- to anchor the group. Wouldn't draft another position, or even trade down far enough to risk missing out on a player this good. 

[gopherwrestler]

Debated between Goedert and Hughes here. Best option is probably trade down. No true top talent fell, outside of those two, they are the only two value picks here. I could understand Ragnow, but I would not be thrilled.

[SteelKing728]

I say the Vikings take Price here but I'd much rather move down. 

Some say this is a weak draft. I think its pretty average so I'd look to recoup some picks and rebuild our depth.

[swede700]

13 hours ago, JDBrocks said:

This is such a bad argument. Why draft any OL? We saw exactly why last year with Elflein. When a guy with good technique that needs to get stronger or learn a new scheme is drafted, you don’t need to wonder if the guy can pick up on fundamentals AND the other nuances of the NFL.

I’m not sure where I suggested, or which part of my statement suggested, that no drafted OL will ever develop. The Vikings have not been good at developing drafted OL with poor technique.

You did not say that they were poor at developing those with poor technique...you indicated that they were poor at developing them period.  Even those with good technique coming out of college, they've clearly failed there as well, because Matt Kalil was supposedly sound technically when he came out.  Either way, I'd be disappointed with them drafting any of those players here, especially Ragnow.  I don't view him as a high ceiling player, nor do I view him as a solid Day-1 starter.  When I hear Ragnow, I think 'eh', as I don't believe he's a first-round talent.  He may still be fine if they draft him, but he may be no more than, at best, a competent OG.  

[VikeManDan]

14 hours ago, Klomp said:

If this was the NBA, I could see something like this. But the value doesn't line up in the NFL world.

Moving down 2 spots would only net you a mid-5th. Moving down 5 spots would net you a 4th.

30 for 35+114 is where the value comes out in a deal with CLE. But why would they trade up for a third 1st?

Another idea would be 30 with IND for 37+105.

It was more in jest seeing as we've fleeced CLE before. 

[Krauser]

44 minutes ago, disaacs said:

Either way, I'd be disappointed with them drafting any of those players here, especially Ragnow.  I don't view him as a high ceiling player, nor do I view him as a solid Day-1 starter.  When I hear Ragnow, I think 'eh', as I don't believe he's a first-round talent.  He may still be fine if they draft him, but he may be no more than, at best, a competent OG.  

Lot of people disagree with you on how good Ragnow is, or will be. He’s an elite athlete for an IOL. He had the 2 highest PFF graded years ever at C and they rank him only behind Nelson in this year’s OL draft class. Brandon Thorn loves him too. If you haven’t seen it already, this article is worth a read: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-frank-ragnow-the-forgotten-superstar-of-the-2018-nfl-draft

As for being a day 1 starter at G, he graded at 87 playing RG vs Alabama last year, mostly lining up across from Da’Ron Payne. Allowed 2 hurries, no hits or sacks. That’s about as close to NFL competition as anyone can get pre-draft, and he aced it. 

I think Ragnow would be the Vikings best OL by the end of his rookie year. 

 

[Freakout]

I would not pass on Rashaan Evans.  He is way too good to pass on.  Whether we need him right away or not.

[whitehops]

this whole ragnow situation is kind of funny to me (and draft season in general). a month or so ago (post combine) he was regarded as a third round pick almost everywhere i looked. just to make josh norris a guinea pig, he has him ranked 32nd on his final big board which was published monday. on march 24th (almost exactly a month before his latest big board) he didn't even have ragnow in his top 50. what the heck happened in that time? i'm now seeing ragnow as a lock for the first round and is regarded as the second best iOL in the draft.

 

as far as i can tell PFF put out an article saying his PFF scores were almost as good as quenton nelson's and suddenly everyone considers ragnow a great prospect. EDIT: PFF has been pretty consistent ranking ragnow highly, seems most others followed the lead.

 

not sure what that phenomenon is called but it's rampant during draft season.

[BigBearSD]

49 minutes ago, whitehops said:

this whole ragnow situation is kind of funny to me (and draft season in general). a month or so ago (post combine) he was regarded as a third round pick almost everywhere i looked. just to make josh norris a guinea pig, he has him ranked 32nd on his final big board which was published monday. on march 24th (almost exactly a month before his latest big board) he didn't even have ragnow in his top 50. what the heck happened in that time? i'm now seeing ragnow as a lock for the first round and is regarded as the second best iOL in the draft.

 

as far as i can tell PFF put out an article saying his PFF scores were almost as good as quenton nelson's and suddenly everyone considers ragnow a great prospect. EDIT: PFF has been pretty consistent ranking ragnow highly, seems most others followed the lead.

 

not sure what that phenomenon is called but it's rampant during draft season.

I think that the team scouts and front offices have just always been higher on Ragnow's stock then the draft community. Just now that it has been steadily leaking that he has late 1st round interest from multiple teams people are adjusting their boards to match that.

[Klomp]

1 hour ago, whitehops said:

this whole ragnow situation is kind of funny to me (and draft season in general). a month or so ago (post combine) he was regarded as a third round pick almost everywhere i looked. just to make josh norris a guinea pig, he has him ranked 32nd on his final big board which was published monday. on march 24th (almost exactly a month before his latest big board) he didn't even have ragnow in his top 50. what the heck happened in that time? i'm now seeing ragnow as a lock for the first round and is regarded as the second best iOL in the draft.

 

as far as i can tell PFF put out an article saying his PFF scores were almost as good as quenton nelson's and suddenly everyone considers ragnow a great prospect. EDIT: PFF has been pretty consistent ranking ragnow highly, seems most others followed the lead.

 

not sure what that phenomenon is called but it's rampant during draft season.

It's called having more research on players and how teams are thinking.

Two months before the draft, people thought Teddy Bridgewater was going to be the top pick. By draft week, people projected him to slip to the late 1st. Who was right?