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For Pride and Bragging Rights


big9erfan

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1 minute ago, Justone2 said:

My biggest problem with Sweat is that he literally every play is the last guy to react to the snap. I dont think that is a easy thing to correct. Besides that his health is a scary thing. I think he is one of those guys that has a lot going for him but just doesn't get the results you expect when you see him play/see his combine. If i would take a chance on a injury risk i would much rather draft Kylie Fitss in the 4th or 5th than Sweat in the 2nd.

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I gotta think that is a scheme thing. He's just way too athletic for there to be any other reason, barring the chance he has the world worst reaction times. I would bet my bottom dollar that his coaches asked him to read and react to the lineman instead of just pinning his ears back and going after the QB. Quite a shame too I that is the case, feels like misuse on the coaches part. I would be all over Sweat with our second rounder provided there aren't any first-round talents left on the board.  Not a huge fan of Minkah but I could feel a Minkah + Sweat draft.

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1 minute ago, Justone2 said:

My biggest problem with Sweat is that he literally every play is the last guy to react to the snap. I dont think that is a easy thing to correct. Besides that his health is a scary thing. I think he is one of those guys that has a lot going for him but just doesn't get the results you expect when you see him play/see his combine. If i would take a chance on a injury risk i would much rather draft Kylie Fitss in the 4th or 5th than Sweat in the 2nd.

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Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline reports that Florida State DE Josh Sweat hasn't received failing medical grades at the NFL Combine and has been stamped with a "middle-of-the-road medical grade" which is "not a major red flag."

A lot of you guys are overreacting...watch for yourself, dont believe everything you read and hear. 

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12 minutes ago, 48 1/2ers said:

A lot of you guys are overreacting...watch for yourself, dont believe everything you read and hear. 

This clip really doesn't say anything more than what i saw already. The guy isn't explosive like he should be with his athleticism. If that are his most explosive plays i just have no interest picking him in the first. If we take him with our second round pick i would be fine with it but i just don't think he has the first step you want from a pass rusher. Even in this clip the times he looks explosive most of the time it is the tackle letting him go round because the play is designed the other way. I still stand by my statement i would prefer going Fitts in the 4th/5th or wherever he may land than Sweat in the 2nd. 

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Just now, Justone2 said:

This clip really doesn't say anything more than what i saw already. The guy isn't explosive like he should be with his athleticism. If that are his most explosive plays i just have no interest picking him in the first. If we take him with our second round pick i would be fine with it but i just don't think he has the first step you want from a pass rusher. Even in this clip the times he looks explosive most of the time it is the tackle letting him go round because the play is designed the other way. I still stand by my statement i would prefer going Fitts in the 4th/5th or wherever he may land than Sweat in the 2nd. 

All good, I respect that. I like Fitts too tbh. Just no need to exaggerate that Sweat is "literally every play the last guy to react to the snap". The guy's gonna be a a good one, this is a bragging rights thread right? ;)

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6 minutes ago, 48 1/2ers said:

All good, I respect that. I like Fitts too tbh. Just no need to exaggerate that Sweat is "literally every play the last guy to react to the snap". The guy's gonna be a a good one, this is a bragging rights thread right? ;)

Yeah it is a bit of an exaggeration but i just don't like his first step/get off. WIth his athleticism and technique he should have more sacks then he had. But thats the draft everyone has their own opinion and view at different players and we just have to wait and see what happens when they get to the NFL.

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One of the reasons I like Edmunds is that I think he can be a great SAM or a great inside backer. So I get position versatility. But I expect him to settle in at one or the other position and become a pro bowl type player there. One thing people love about minkah is his positional versatililty.   But can he just be good at multiple spots, or can he be great at one? In other words I want Earl Thomas in his prime or Richard SHerman in his prime (wait, do we maybe have that?). I don't want a guiy that can switch back and forth between those two spots and maybe play some LB too. I want a shut down corner or a  great deep S that can cover sideline to sideline.  I have more doubts about Minkah as a shut down corner than a  center fielder. I could be wrong, but I do worry some about him ever becoming a shut down corner.So what I'm grappling with is - what are his chances of becoming a pro bowl FS?  I'm not knocking him, or saying he can't or won't be a great safety. I just feel more sure that Nelson will be a pro bowl G, or Ward will be a pro bowl CB or even that James will be a pro bowler as an in-the-box S. Oh, and of course that Smith will be a pro bowl LB. Having said that I'd be very pleased if he turns out to be our pick.

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58 minutes ago, 48 1/2ers said:

A lot of you guys are overreacting...watch for yourself, dont believe everything you read and hear. 

In watching his 2-minutes of explosiveness for myself, I counted 3x out of 30 where he made it to the QB or ball carrier, and impacted maybe 2 or 3 others. In his highlight video for explosiveness. 

Give me Dorance Armstrong in the 2nd over him.

Also, don't ever give me Dorance Armstrong. I do not want him.

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1 hour ago, Forge said:

I'd probably over reach for Sweat a little just because of the athletic profile, his role in the defense in college, and the hope that I can cure that first step. His athletic and physical profiles work for a Leo. The injuries are a legit concern. There are some later round guys that could profile okay there as well, but lack the upside. Sweat is a guy that has the upside to be a gifted pass rusher, I won't deny that, but definitely not clean enough for me to view as a first round guy. Trevon Young at the end of the draft could be intriguing. I know Jeff Holland has a lot of supporters, but his physical profile is certainly not ideal for a leo. The guy that I really would like though? Marcell Frazier. He has a bevy of pass rush moves already and is pretty sophisticated in that regard. He didn't get a combine invite, which shows a lack of interest, but I don't quite understand that. He had his pro day, and it was pretty positive - much faster than I think anyone though (4.6 40),  but his 3-cone was meh (7.14) which is a big drill for me. That probably keeps him down a little bit, but still, talking about late round guys, I really like him. Kemeko Turay and Duke Eijiofor are both guys I really like in those middle rounds (3) as well. 

I should have been a lot more clear. The folks I mentioned, I see as possible starting LEOs that I'd pick above the spot where most would be interested. The draft is largely about players that you value as a team higher than others would. I'd put premiums on the players that I mentioned. I said starters because I don't think that we need competant rotational options that are athleticly limited (like Josh Holland). We have Cassius Marsh to be a Cassius Marsh already. Getting another dude that gives you Cassius Marsh/Attaochu presence is really not worth the draft capital at the position in my opinion. I want a starter early or a high upside flyer way late on. Sweat and Arden Key have similar draft grades for me. I look for traits on tape, above average to elite athletic measurables and health, and mental and emotional capability about evenly with the first getting the biggest portion of the pie.  Sweat looks like a 3-4 two gap end on tape, largely because of the scheme. He is immensely strong and has the measurables to prove that he is a truly rare athlete for the position. But I don't have enough snaps of him rushing as a wide 9 and bending the edge to feel comfortable that he really knows how to pass rush yet and while 14 sacks isn't the worst, Landry did that in a season against the same competition. Scheme can tamp down athletic talent, but I still need it on tape, personally. Minkah has ~3/4s of a season of elite free safety tape over the course of his career, even though scheme put him in a bunch of other spots. I trust that more than something like the 40 overall snaps of Sweat I see playing similarly to a LEO. So, Sweat's tape takes a pretty hefty ding in my mind. Using athletic testing, he'd be basically a perfect ten, but I lump health in. Even with the medical reports, major traumatic injuries like that matter. It's better to now have a clean bill of health and be able to perform, but you will always be more likely to overstress other areas and cause future injuries. So, Sweat takes a decent ding on physical traits as well. Mentally, I have read and seen only very good things from Josh Sweat. Seems to like and enjoy football. Worked hard to get back from injuries. Performs his job well. Key put up the best pass rushing season on tape of any of these prospects in my opinion. That matters. Physically and mentally is where he takes the dings. He tested poorly and has had trouble in the past maintaining his body. The mental stuff is likewise well documented. But the man has proven that he can beat NFL caliber tackles and cause havoc. 

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