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Official Broncos Forum Draft Thread


AnAngryAmerican

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8 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

It's late and I'm drunk, so my internet sarcasm detector is broken. This is a joke right?

Haha partially.  My wife is a HS Math teacher in Colorado Springs.  I am an Elementary School Counselor in Colorado Springs, both of us with Masters degrees.  Smart people would be putting forth far less effort and making far more money.  As someone with experience in the field in terms of making money, stupidest move a person could make.  

I could move to Washington and work at McDonalds and make the same wage I am now.

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4 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

I'm not sure I understand your comment. Coaching is teaching, or at least should be. A degree in education just gives a coach more tools to do his job.

Haha I was kidding. Didn’t come across as I had thought.

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3 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

I hear people say 10 picks was too many but look at the rams they made 11 picks and had a better roster than us .

The Rams have 73 guys under contract before the draft, and they loaded up a top-heavy team, looking for guys to actually just be cheap contributors on ST or be backups to stars.   We have 82 guys, but also very little 2019 cap room - so ideally, we find difference makers who allow us to shed big cap-hit contracts.   That's a massive difference not just in roster space, but also in how we have to view the draft.   We can't expect most of our draft guys to make a 2018 impact, but we absolutely need 4-5 to be ready to be 2019 big contributors.   Some of our picks will whiff, but we can't go even just 2-3 hits for 2019.  Our roster is that needy for good and cheap talent (since our cap situation for 2019 blows hard).

If you accept the above - then you have to find guys who have no business being 4th-5th rounders.   IMO we did a great job with Rd4.  Jewell's profile allowed him to fall in a really strong ILB class, and Hamilton's slot-only skill set and a really, really deep 2nd-3rd tier WR class (no elite tier guys, lots of 2nd-3rd tier guys) allowed to be that guy.    That was awesome.   The 5th-7th round guys we took were way more projection and lower ceiling than the 5.149 Crosby / 5.160 Settle picks IMO.   That was a valid point @Counselor brought up originally, and I agree there.   The TE we got has a really limited ceiling, the RB we got is basically a much less-skilled version of Freeman (the PS RB is actually a guy who fits a different role, scatback).   I'd much prefer Crosby/Settle, now that's just me - but there's a rationale I see in catching falling talent that's been proven time and again to be better than accumulating quantity at that tier.   When a tier is loaded with talent, and it's similar, you can argue quantity.   But when you're down to 1-2 difference makers left who shouldn't be there (the point @AKRNA was making in theory we went back & forth on, which I agreed 100 percent in theory, just not that it applied to 2.40's pick), then staying at 5.149/5.160 was IMO the right call.

Sadly if we aren't a good roster (we aren't) right-now, we can't develop guys for 2-3 years and hope they pan out - we have to throw a lot of them into the fire Year 2.   We do need them to be more JAG-ceiling talent, so it's a mix of high-ceiling but also football-skilled guys. It's part of what @AKRNA was alluding to with having so many PS guys on OL.  There are so many there already, it appeared that we have to make very selected choices, not just add to PS-level talent. 

We are way better off getting 8 quality guys with picks than 6 quality guys and 4 flyers who fight for 2 positions.   We need difference makers 

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5 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

The Rams have 73 guys under contract before the draft, and they loaded up a top-heavy team, looking for guys to actually just be cheap contributors on ST or be backups to stars.   We have 82 guys, but also very little 2019 cap room - so ideally, we find difference makers who allow us to shed big cap-hit contracts.   That's a massive difference not just in roster space, but also in how we have to view the draft.   We can't expect most of our draft guys to make a 2018 impact, but we absolutely need 4-5 to be ready to be 2019 big contributors.   Some of our picks will whiff, but we can't go even just 2-3 hits for 2019.  Our roster is that needy for good and cheap talent (since our cap situation for 2019 blows hard).

If you accept the above - then you have to find guys who have no business being 4th-5th rounders.   IMO we did a great job with Rd4.  Jewell's profile allowed him to fall in a really strong ILB class, and Hamilton's slot-only skill set and a really, really deep 2nd-3rd tier WR class (no elite tier guys, lots of 2nd-3rd tier guys) allowed to be that guy.    That was awesome.   The 5th-7th round guys we took were way more projection and lower ceiling than the 5.149 Crosby / 5.160 Settle picks IMO.   That was a valid point @Counselor brought up originally, and I agree there.   The TE we got has a really limited ceiling, the RB we got is basically a much less-skilled version of Freeman (the PS RB is actually a guy who fits a different role, scatback).   I'd much prefer Crosby/Settle, now that's just me - but there's a rationale I see in catching falling talent that's been proven time and again to be better than accumulating quantity at that tier.   When a tier is loaded with talent, and it's similar, you can argue quantity.   But when you're down to 1-2 difference makers left who shouldn't be there (the point @AKRNA was making in theory we went back & forth on, which I agreed 100 percent in theory, just not that it applied to 2.40's pick), then staying at 5.149/5.160 was IMO the right call.

Sadly if we aren't a good roster (we aren't) right-now, we can't develop guys for 2-3 years and hope they pan out - we have to throw a lot of them into the fire Year 2.   We do need them to be more JAG-ceiling talent, so it's a mix of high-ceiling but also football-skilled guys. It's part of what @AKRNA was alluding to with having so many PS guys on OL.  There are so many there already, it appeared that we have to make very selected choices, not just add to PS-level talent. 

We are way better off getting 8 quality guys with picks than 6 quality guys and 4 flyers who fight for 2 positions.   We need difference makers 

I think our roster improved significantly. 

Chubb day 1 impact.

Freeman day 1 impact.

Hamilton  day 1 impact

Jewell  day 1 impact.

Put it this way we dont have the worse roster in the afc west

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53 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I think our roster improved significantly. 

Chubb day 1 impact.

Freeman day 1 impact.

Hamilton  day 1 impact

Jewell  day 1 impact.

Put it this way we dont have the worse roster in the afc west

Sadly, we could easily still have it.  We were the worst going in - OAK's draft I didn't think much of, but getting Nick Nelson (who will return for OTA's & TC by taking the easier operation, which was a mistake IMO) and then knocking it out of the park with Maurice Hurst, really helped their D with year 1 impact guys.   And they get Gareon Conley and Obi Melifonwu back from season ending injuries, their top 2 picks to really beef up the secondary (along with their priority bargain CB Rashaad Melvin).   We made fun of Gruden's aging FA signings and that Kolton Miller/PJ Hall/Arden Key was as reachy (first 2) and OMG-risky-not-so-great-ceiling (Key) as it gets, but McKenzie really hit a Day 3 home run.  

KC & LAC were well ahead of us, nothing changed there...for 2018.   LAC's only big misstep IMO was not going  Nnadi, Hurst or Settle for Jones as their NT in Rd3 (Nwosu was a little early, but getting Kevin Jones as their hybrid S/LB provides the cover skills that Nwosu doesn't, he's more a pass-rusher ILB who is learning to read better, his chase skills are awesome).   Hated that they got their needs met with only a small reach at Rd2 and Rd3, they had a strong Day 3, and no way Derwin James should fall to them at 1.17.  If they had gotten a true run stuffer DT, I'd say their D is truly complete now...which is scary.  KC had to wait, but man, Nnadi really helped their run D, which was their weakness.   Smith was a nice developmental CB, and Speaks helped them shore up the DL.  They certainly didn't have a strong draft by not having early picks, but they were far ahead of us.  And again, the drafts don't really impact Year 1, it's next year we're looking for.


As for us - Freeman will have impact, but to be honest it won't be at CJ Anderson-level - but he's going to be 3.5M cheaper per year doing it, and hopefully he gets there.     Hopefully if Freeman doesn't play at a CJ level from the get go, people don't freak out - CJ was a business decision with our cap situation, and the fact we needed to turn over the roster to bring in out young, cheap RB's, and 4 weren't there.   Freeman is not this year's Kareem Hunt, but he's going to help, and be cheap - which is exactly what we needed (Michel/Penny were the dream, because those 2 on the other hand....no way we can spend a late 1st like SEA/NE did, SEA that was horrible value).

I agree those 4 are who I see having a strong 2019 impact, but right now, I only see Chubb and Jewell as huge difference-makers (we get Crosby and Settle, that's 7 guys who could be playing regularly and actually decently in 2019 - Sutton's a guy I'm high will be ready for 2019 for impact, once we cut one of DT/Sanders, and Sutton has learned the pro game - but he needs the year to really break through, most WR's do, 2014 was an aberration).   Freeman & Hamilton will get on the field, which is a W - but not impact, difference-making levels Year 1.  That's a bridge too far. 

Don't get me wrong, this is still the best draft since 2011.  But drafts don't have a big Year 1 impact.  NO 2017 is literally once a decade, if not rarer.  Those 4 guys will all get on the field sometime this year, Chubb right away, and Freeman at worst being a true split with Booker - but difference-making is a lot different than getting on the field.   What we did do - we've taken a huge step to close the gap for 2019.  4-5 Day 1 impact, better-than-average starters for 2019 is our best result since 2011's draft.  And I love our chances there (1-2 might bust, too, but I'm hopeful because it's not so obvious who out of our 5 best picks - just could have been 7 great picks IMO with Crosby/Settle, but that's water under the bridge).  It's a breath of fresh air for us with what Elway/Kubiak 2017 have done this year.

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16 hours ago, broncos67 said:

I can't really agree with any of this. The point of the draft is not to fix problems for the upcoming season. That's what FA is for. The draft is for finding long-term solutions for your football team. Chubb is going to contribute in a major way. Sutton should see his fair share of snaps already this season. Freeman is a #3? Apparently the coaches don't share that viewpoint with you since they have said it's open competition. 

Yes, we did not go after a QB, which may or may not be a bad thing depending on how you look at it. I agree they should have attacked OL sooner. But to call this draft troubling? That's a severely hot take. Burning, really. Sutton is, by all accounts, a huge steal for Denver. But to claim we "missed" in this draft is nuts. Frankly, the Broncos don't have a lot of talent on this team. We added contributors in a bunch of positions across the board, and guys who can do things we haven't been able to do in years. Red zone targets, short yardage backs, chain movers, and some quality defensive depth. I give that a giant thumbs up.

I agree 100% with every point you make here. 

We did fill the glaring needs we had in free agency; we got a proven, veteran starting QB, we got a proven, veteran, starting RT, we got a proven, veteran No. 3 CB, we got a LB/S hybrid to help cover TEs and RBs, our biggest defensive weakness since Danny T left for the Windy City. That being said, it wasn't a free agent haul circa 2015 when we got Talib, Ward, Ware and Sanders - all Pro Bowl / All-Pro / Hall of Fame level players - but we did plug some holes. As everyone knows I'm not that high on Keenum or no Veldheer but they're both starters. Brock is a run-of-the-mill N0. 3 CB and Cravens gives us a nice chess piece on defense to counteract attempted mis-matches opposing offenses try to create against us. 

That all allowed us to go BPA in the draft while filling out the roster quality prospects. We high-impact, immediate-impact player (Chubb), a couple of guys who early on will help inject some more life into our moribund offense (Sutton and Freeman), two ILBs who should, at the very least, contribute right away on special teams (Jewell and Beirria) and give us depth at a thin position (now and in 2019 when we move on from Marshall), a depth CB with length and high upside (Yiadom) and a handful of other guys with high-upside potential from established college programs with pro-style system. Our picks come from schools like Wisconsin, Penn St., Washington, ASU, Iowa, BC, these aren't try-hard, feel-good-story guys from FCS schools, these are legit players from legit programs. Look at the scouting reports, peppered throughout all of them are words like "leader," "team captain," "All-Conference," "smart," "consistent," "high football IQ," "productive," and on and on. 

This was a good draft. I do agree with those who wish we would have gone for an OL player earlier but when that's all we're quibbling about, it was a very good draft, especially when evaluated relative to the recent past. 

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It's a moot point now, because he's going to be the next in a long line of Browns QB busts, but this line from the Klis story makes me feel a lot better about our draft evaluation process. 

Quote

 

Saquon Barkley, Sam Darnold, Bradley Chubb. Or trade back with the Buffalo Bills.

According to league sources familiar with the Broncos’ draft plan, the team had cooled on quarterback Baker Mayfield. Even had he slipped past the Cleveland Browns’ No. 1 overall draft selection, even had the New York Jets not taken him at No. 3, the Broncos were not going to take Mayfield at No. 5.

 

 

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