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NFL Draft Day Thread - DTWD


.Buzz

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2 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said:

Ok if I told you that you were getting Castillo or Bunkley or the guys who were still on the board who are you taking?

honestly i wouldnt be all that mad.  granted not the biggest current need but but getting a solid starter is always good.  what if i told you hes the next fletcher cox(its a legit comparison). you passing on fletcher for who?

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55 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said:

 

 I guess this is what everyone is banking on the three names in front of him didn't do nothing 

Noonan 12

Castillo 28

Bunkley 14th

hood 32

nkemdiche 29

Russell 2nd

hovan 25th

Donald 13

Suh 2

Harris 14

Williams 9

Fairley 13.

 

id say we took him after that average. *i didnt include vea as i dont care about using a player picked same draft*

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I'm not passing on Fletcher.. but this kid doesn't have Fletchers production measurable sure but throwing around a bunch of mediocre interior lineman on Texas A&M that won't sniff a practice squad, flashing the last 5 games of the season, not playing dline until reaching college are red flags to me. Potential aside or not Vernon Gholston, Mike Mamula we can go on for days about guys who tested off the charts and flashed but that doesn't mean when he gets to the next level that his game is going to take off. The things that I do like he isn't lazy and he has a motor thats the 2 most important things to me aside from the obvious so if he turns out to be Fletcher Cox than I'd be head over hills. But if we are talking Castillo or Bunkley this is a wasted pick.. I stand by that. 

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11 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said:

I'm not passing on Fletcher.. but this kid doesn't have Fletchers production measurable sure but throwing around a bunch of mediocre interior lineman on Texas A&M that won't sniff a practice squad, flashing the last 5 games of the season, not playing dline until reaching college are red flags to me. Potential aside or not Vernon Gholston, Mike Mamula we can go on for days about guys who tested off the charts and flashed but that doesn't mean when he gets to the next level that his game is going to take off. The things that I do like he isn't lazy and he has a motor thats the 2 most important things to me aside from the obvious so if he turns out to be Fletcher Cox than I'd be head over hills. But if we are talking Castillo or Bunkley this is a wasted pick.. I stand by that. 

Again, you can do this same thing with any prospect. None of the OL we were tied to we're sure things. Hurst will be a 25 yo rookie with no elite trait and didn't test great at the combine.

Would've been just as much of a wasted pick had we taken a bust of an OL which would've been just as much of a possibility as that happening with Bryan.

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Bunkley is good value at 29th pick. And i wpuld be fine with that if that's who he ends up being. But for me, of course, it's all about the position.

You do not pass on a potential franchise QB when you do not have one.

I get this staff thinks Bortles will take a step forward (even though they are afraid to let him throw the ball with about a minute left in the 2nd quarter when you're a half away from the super bowl, or that they effectively only signed him for two years extension), but until I see Bortles consistently win games for us instead of being "protected" against a winless Browns team (and a host of other games where it was clear they did not want him throwing the football), this will always be a questionable pick especially if Blake does his usual Blake thing, and especially if Lamar becomes who I think he can be.

It's the 29th pick, and if you hit on a Tyson Alualu type career at that pick, that's solid.

Doesn't mean you couldnt have gotten someone better.

 

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1 minute ago, .Buzz said:

Again, you can do this same thing with any prospect. None of the OL we were tied to we're sure things. Hurst will be a 25 yo rookie with no elite trait and didn't test great at the combine.

Would've been just as much of a wasted pick had we taken a bust of an OL which would've been just as much of a possibility as that happening with Bryan.

? Lets see we had a struggling Oline, for the record no I wouldn't have drafted a TE because I don't think that you're going to get production from that position either as a rookie. You have an offense that has struggled and no I would not have taken a QB because instantly start the clock ticking for a melt down because as soon as you took Lamar you draw a line in the sand in the locker room because when Blake starts to falter it was going to get ugly. Jalen is a huge Lamar fan I didn't want that for that locker room. But for a QB that can't carry a team you take a piece that could have helped out on the Oline to fortify that portion and make it a complete unit.. or you could have got a weapon for Blake. But to essentially put stock into a pick that will see the field from the sideline and that will help you in 2019 when we are trying to win TODAY! And not in 2019 you just can't make that seem logical to me.. i'm sorry. Its like drafting Jack and letting him sit that rookie yr. I haven't been this pissed off for a pick since TJ Yeldon that has been proven to be a reach.. to me this is going to be a similar pick.. its not logical with how our team is set up right now. I would have preferred a nickel corner over this pick if you want to make a strength stronger because i'm sure he'll be on the field in the nickel a lot more than this pick next year and miss me with the cap in 19 I really don't care nothing about it.

Will Hernandez is not a fit for this team he plays LG and not right he is a good run blocker but he is not the height and weight measurable guy.. I highly doubt he is high on their board.. I wanted a tackle like Conner or Crosby that can play guard next year and kick to tackle in 19'. I want to see Fournette run behind a real line. Or get the QB a big target on the outside but than again i'm not high on any of the wideouts but if you wanted to take a flyer on a player to develop it would have been Courtland Sutton.. just because of his sheer size on the outside. But Conner or Crosby would have been my pick.   

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3 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said:

? Lets see we had a struggling Oline, for the record no I wouldn't have drafted a TE because I don't think that you're going to get production from that position either as a rookie. You have an offense that has struggled and no I would not have taken a QB because instantly start the clock ticking for a melt down because as soon as you took Lamar you draw a line in the sand in the locker room because when Blake starts to falter it was going to get ugly. Jalen is a huge Lamar fan I didn't want that for that locker room. But for a QB that can't carry a team you take a piece that could have helped out on the Oline to fortify that portion and make it a complete unit.. or you could have got a weapon for Blake. But to essentially put stock into a pick that will see the field from the sideline and that will help you in 2019 when we are trying to win TODAY! And not in 2019 you just can't make that seem logical to me.. i'm sorry. Its like drafting Jack and letting him sit that rookie yr. I haven't been this pissed off for a pick since TJ Yeldon that has been proven to be a reach.. to me this is going to be a similar pick.. its not logical with how our team is set up right now. I would have preferred a nickel corner over this pick if you want to make a strength stronger because i'm sure he'll be on the field in the nickel a lot more than this pick next year and miss me with the cap in 19 I really don't care nothing about it.

Will Hernandez is not a fit for this team he plays LG and not right he is a good run blocker but he is not the height and weight measurable guy.. I highly doubt he is high on their board.. I wanted a tackle like Conner or Crosby that can play guard next year and kick to tackle in 19'. I want to see Fournette run behind a real line. Or get the QB a big target on the outside but than again i'm not high on any of the wideouts but if you wanted to take a flyer on a player to develop it would have been Courtland Sutton.. just because of his sheer size on the outside. But Conner or Crosby would have been my pick.   

Our OL was average to slightly above average compared to the rest of the league last year and we added an all pro in Norwell at LG over arguably our worst OL in Omameh.

Crosby may very well be there come mid 2nd all the way to our pick with who is all on the board. Guys like Braden Smith will also be around.

You are basically talking about taking need over sheer talent. You happen to not like Bryan which again, is fine. But he was pretty much consistently seen in the top 20-25 of prospects. We as fans always talk about not reaching and in a draft with no drastic need we take the top player on the board and get upset.

Our pass rush fell off hard late last year, it was evident at times in the playoffs. Calais and co. got really worn down. We needed more depth here even with Smoots likely increase in PT. 

If a guy like Braden Smith is the guy at 61, than we likely upgrade RG quite a bit as is. Although I love Crosby he likely isn't drastically altering the play on the right side in 2018 either even if he's a starter. Cann isnt particularly good, but he isn't trash either. I think getting a guy with a high motor and this guys pass rush ability while spelling and allowing the older guys more rest to keep them fresh throughout the year isn't drastically behind that in value for 2018. 

 

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1 hour ago, DuvalsKing said:

? Lets see we had a struggling Oline, for the record no I wouldn't have drafted a TE because I don't think that you're going to get production from that position either as a rookie. You have an offense that has struggled and no I would not have taken a QB because instantly start the clock ticking for a melt down because as soon as you took Lamar you draw a line in the sand in the locker room because when Blake starts to falter it was going to get ugly. Jalen is a huge Lamar fan I didn't want that for that locker room. But for a QB that can't carry a team you take a piece that could have helped out on the Oline to fortify that portion and make it a complete unit.. or you could have got a weapon for Blake. But to essentially put stock into a pick that will see the field from the sideline and that will help you in 2019 when we are trying to win TODAY! And not in 2019 you just can't make that seem logical to me.. i'm sorry. Its like drafting Jack and letting him sit that rookie yr. I haven't been this pissed off for a pick since TJ Yeldon that has been proven to be a reach.. to me this is going to be a similar pick.. its not logical with how our team is set up right now. I would have preferred a nickel corner over this pick if you want to make a strength stronger because i'm sure he'll be on the field in the nickel a lot more than this pick next year and miss me with the cap in 19 I really don't care nothing about it.

Will Hernandez is not a fit for this team he plays LG and not right he is a good run blocker but he is not the height and weight measurable guy.. I highly doubt he is high on their board.. I wanted a tackle like Conner or Crosby that can play guard next year and kick to tackle in 19'. I want to see Fournette run behind a real line. Or get the QB a big target on the outside but than again i'm not high on any of the wideouts but if you wanted to take a flyer on a player to develop it would have been Courtland Sutton.. just because of his sheer size on the outside. But Conner or Crosby would have been my pick.   

i dunno the scout Bob McGinn Football talked to but this was on rotoworld.  Conner is being considered a Guard cuz of his arm length not to mention he struggled this year and the Big 12 didnt have good edge rushers. he also has an Injury history. 

Bob McGinn Football also had a scout that said he thinks Crosby will bust because he isnt strong enough(17 reps), skinny ankles, and reportedly be a guard only because of his poor feet. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, .Buzz said:

Our OL was average to slightly above average compared to the rest of the league last year and we added an all pro in Norwell at LG over arguably our worst OL in Omameh.

Crosby may very well be there come mid 2nd all the way to our pick with who is all on the board. Guys like Braden Smith will also be around.

You are basically talking about taking need over sheer talent. You happen to not like Bryan which again, is fine. But he was pretty much consistently seen in the top 20-25 of prospects. We as fans always talk about not reaching and in a draft with no drastic need we take the top player on the board and get upset.

Our pass rush fell off hard late last year, it was evident at times in the playoffs. Calais and co. got really worn down. We needed more depth here even with Smoots likely increase in PT. 

If a guy like Braden Smith is the guy at 61, than we likely upgrade RG quite a bit as is. Although I love Crosby he likely isn't drastically altering the play on the right side in 2018 either even if he's a starter. Cann isnt particularly good, but he isn't trash either. I think getting a guy with a high motor and this guys pass rush ability while spelling and allowing the older guys more rest to keep them fresh throughout the year isn't drastically behind that in value for 2018. 

 

my OL guys in no particular order: james Daniels, Braden Smith, Orlando brown, Chukwuma Okorafor.  Brian O'Neil, Martinas Rankins, Joseph Noteboom are all intrgiuing guys. O'Neil and Noteboom both seem to be pretty athletic guys.  Rankins seems like a guy who could go to guard or tackle. 

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1 hour ago, Speedyg said:

Bunkley is good value at 29th pick. And i wpuld be fine with that if that's who he ends up being. But for me, of course, it's all about the position.

You do not pass on a potential franchise QB when you do not have one.

I get this staff thinks Bortles will take a step forward (even though they are afraid to let him throw the ball with about a minute left in the 2nd quarter when you're a half away from the super bowl, or that they effectively only signed him for two years extension), but until I see Bortles consistently win games for us instead of being "protected" against a winless Browns team (and a host of other games where it was clear they did not want him throwing the football), this will always be a questionable pick especially if Blake does his usual Blake thing, and especially if Lamar becomes who I think he can be.

It's the 29th pick, and if you hit on a Tyson Alualu type career at that pick, that's solid.

Doesn't mean you couldnt have gotten someone better.

 

I think this is what it comes down to.  If you really, truly, confidently believe Lamar Jackson is going to be a "Franchise QB"...any other pick at all is going to be an extremely tough sell.

There are multiple problems with that though.

1.There's nothing even close to resembling a guarantee that Jackson is even going to be a good QB in the league, much less a franchise guy.  The potential is there, but there's big bust potential as well.

2.In the sort of thing @DuvalsKing was touching on previously, bringing a high profile guy like Jackson in behind Bortles is a ready-made precarious QB controversy, pretty much immediately.  QB controversies are bad for business, on a team with championship aspirations.  So if you're taking Jackson...you'd better be ready to roll with him and commit fully to it.  And to do so sooner, rather than later.  Because Bortles will stumble and have rough games.

3.Following on from the above...if you want to put Jackson in a position to succeed early, you're going to run a significantly different offense with Bortles vs Jackson.  This team however, has been built primarily to play Bortle ball, and mask his particularly glaring flaws as best as possible.  I'm sure you could make it workable with Jackson, but it'd be a significant reconfiguration of the offensive playbook and gameplan, and a big adjustment for the players around them.

4.Even further to that, and on the idea of our craptastic "backup QB" situation right now...I think there's some cause to wonder if Jackson would actually be ready to step in and run the offense right away, even as a backup.  You can only "dynamic athlete" your way so far in the NFL.  There's a lot of stuff Blake does that goes unnoticed i think, just in managing our run game on the field.  That's not something Lamar Jackson did at a significant level in college.  It's also likely the biggest factor in why he very nearly slipped out of the 1st round.  We've seen otherwise reasonably talented guys (like Tyler Wilson) come out of that Bobby Petrino offense with absolutely no clue how to handle an NFL playbook.  It may have some "pro looking" route concepts...but its underpinnings are extremely simplified and gimmicky as heck.  And Jackson not only scored poorly on his wonderlic, but has had rumours floating around for a while now that he didn't impress with his "chalk talk" in meetings.  Which loops back to point #3 - you're going to be doing some very different things with Jackson running the offense, especially year 1.  People will point to Watson last year, but i think it's pretty evident that coming out, Watson had a deeper, more sophisticated football knowledge base to work from.  Which allowed him to step in so early and succeed.

5.To the backup point...we've still got 6 rounds of the draft to go, and all but 5 QBs still on the board.  We could still very reasonably get a backup QB "upgrade".  Very probably one who would slide more naturally into the Bortle ball offense.  People rag on the Air Raid system, but through the draft process i think it's been fairly evident that even a guy like Luke Falk coming out of there, has a stronger grasp on some applicable pro concepts and the management of the run game.  Which...in our offense, managing the run game is quite literally ~50% of the QBs job.  So there's still time to find someone who will leave us less hooped than Kessler, if Bortles can't (or shouldn't) play for some reason.

 

I mean...if Jackson goes on to become a real long-term franchise QB, and Bortles takes a step back, it's going to be absurdly frustrating.  But there are plenty good reasons to have passed on him.  It's really just a matter of Franchise QB >>> Anything else.  If you have an unshakable belief that Jackson is going to be one of those...anything else is going to suck as a pick.

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