1(3). Sam Darnold, QB, Southern California

[Rockice_8]

11 minutes ago, ekill08x said:

PFF has us as 30th overall offensive line last year and yet we were injury free, and Spencer Long was our only addition...talk about putting all the eggs in one basket. Wesley Johnson horrific but we need to start developing more lineman, especially with a young QB. 

Shell only played 12 games, Winters had a torn bicep from week 2 on.  Hard to say we were injury free.

[ekill08x]

11 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Shell only played 12 games, Winters had a torn bicep from week 2 on.  Hard to say we were injury free.

Brian Winters better look like a new man the way he gets talked about on here. 

[SDotNova]

38 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Pretty much every position across the line as individuals are average which hopefully leads to an average line.  There are no more Johnson's or Winters playing with a torn bicep.

Lets all hope for average line play.

 

I think average is our best case scenario. 

But we have to start spending top dollar or premium picks on the line. I don’t see Lewan OT, Martin G, or Matthews OT making it to free agency. But if they do, back up the truck. Next year’s draft has a few high end LT as well. So, we can revamp this thing in short order. 

[famousj]

21 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Shell only played 12 games, Winters had a torn bicep from week 2 on.  Hard to say we were injury free.

Improving one OL position can have a significant affect on the rest of the line especially at the center position.   The other members of the OL do not have to feel they have to make up for the bad play of another Offensive linemen.

[MoLewis57]

Winters is trash and pretty much always has been. I was shocked when he got resigned. 

8ish games of average play in a contract year is not good enough. 

[Rich51]

Sigh Just my opinion but Mac has very little interest in building an OL. He drafted two 5th rounders in 4 drafts and in free agency signed 4  guys coming off poor years or injuries. We still have 4 OL from Idzik years that will probably make our team - Winters, Ijalana, Qvale and Dozier.  I think the only other players that have been here from Pre Mac are Q and Powell (Davis and Kerley were brought back by Mac).

[rampantjet]

3 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

Pretty much every position across the line as individuals are average which hopefully leads to an average line.  There are no more Johnson's or Winters playing with a torn bicep.

Lets all hope for average line play.

 

I would think most average NFL lines have at least 1 or 2 well above average players and then a smattering of average to slightly below average to fill it out.  Nothing but 5 average to potentially below average players on a line together is a rough proposition. 

[rampantjet]

3 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

Shell only played 12 games, Winters had a torn bicep from week 2 on.  Hard to say we were injury free.

I think it was a torn abdominal muscle, which could be either far better or far worst depending. 

[SDotNova]

31 minutes ago, rampantjet said:

I think it was a torn abdominal muscle, which could be either far better or far worst depending. 

I thought it was a torn pec. Lol. Let’s just say he had a upper body tear.

[rampantjet]

44 minutes ago, SDotNova said:

I thought it was a torn pec. Lol. Let’s just say he had a upper body tear.

I looked it up... he had surgery for "completely torn core muscles"  which is abs basically.  Completely torn sounds pretty terrible

[jetskid007]

2 hours ago, Rich51 said:

Sigh Just my opinion but Mac has very little interest in building an OL. He drafted two 5th rounders in 4 drafts and in free agency signed 4  guys coming off poor years or injuries. We still have 4 OL from Idzik years that will probably make our team - Winters, Ijalana, Qvale and Dozier.  I think the only other players that have been here from Pre Mac are Q and Powell (Davis and Kerley were brought back by Mac).

He was always considered a good identifier of line talent dating back to his days as a scout with the Redskins. I think the issue is that scouts don't see the same level of offensive line play they used to, hence why we're seeing less and less players get drafted early at those positions - especially at tackle. The new way is to draft/develop and add experience through FA. Maybe next years crop of LTs will change that.

[KingOfNewYork]

3 hours ago, Rich51 said:

Sigh Just my opinion but Mac has very little interest in building an OL. He drafted two 5th rounders in 4 drafts and in free agency signed 4  guys coming off poor years or injuries. We still have 4 OL from Idzik years that will probably make our team - Winters, Ijalana, Qvale and Dozier.  I think the only other players that have been here from Pre Mac are Q and Powell (Davis and Kerley were brought back by Mac).

Missing the two seconds hurt us in terms of adding OL talent, by the time we were picking again they were pretty much depleted. 

Our new blocking scheme is also made to help Linemen out however I wouldn't say these guys are all natural fits. Long and Beachum should thrive while Winters is scheme versatile IMO. Shell I'm not sure of and Carpenter already struggled in a Bates scheme so who knows but he's played better since then.

I think the Line can be above average next year honestly, healthier plus adding an upgrade at Center.

[SDotNova]

3 hours ago, jetskid007 said:

He was always considered a good identifier of line talent dating back to his days as a scout with the Redskins. I think the issue is that scouts don't see the same level of offensive line play they used to, hence why we're seeing less and less players get drafted early at those positions - especially at tackle. The new way is to draft/develop and add experience through FA. Maybe next years crop of LTs will change that.

This is it. The general play of offensive lineman has gone down. Some of it has to do with injuries but only 13 centers had a grade of 70 and above last year. If you look at tackles and guards, only about 32 of each graded above 70. So on average most teams have 1 good tackle and 1 good guard and a player below average at the other guard and tackle spots. 

I recall reading an article that said college offenses have hurt lineman development  just as much as QBs. 

I think we will manage fine this year. But getting 1 impact player on this line will go a long way. Convince Dallas they don’t need Zack Martin. They can’t franchise Martin and Lawrence, right? 

[rdelaney89]

7 hours ago, jetskid007 said:

He was always considered a good identifier of line talent dating back to his days as a scout with the Redskins. I think the issue is that scouts don't see the same level of offensive line play they used to, hence why we're seeing less and less players get drafted early at those positions - especially at tackle. The new way is to draft/develop and add experience through FA. Maybe next years crop of LTs will change that.

This is the reason. Practice time has been cut down so much that OL prospects take a lot longer to develop. There are certainly some exceptions but by and large that is one of the reasons NFL quality of play has dropped in recent years.

 

Side note I don’t think we can understate just how terrible Wes Johnson was last year. We are talking like 35th ranked center or something like that plus having Winters injured since week 2. The inside of that line took a beating, I think adding Long and a healthy Winters will have us in good shape. Then we will look for OL next offseason.

[Rockice_8]

15 hours ago, ekill08x said:

Brian Winters better look like a new man the way he gets talked about on here. 

Pretty sure nobody calls him anything better than average around here when he's healthy.  Only reason it sounds like everyone else thinks he's an all-pro is because you think he shouldn't even be in the NFL.  I'm ready to move on after this season or next (whenever his guaranteed money is up) if he doesn't become more consistent and shake the injury bug.