Roquan Smith - ILB #8 overall

[51to54]

55 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

This is great news for the fact we hopefully never need to see Timu play a significant down again...even after missing time I still expect him to be our leading tackler from day one.

Hopefully, but it's hard to make tackles if he remains sitting in his agent's office come the season.

[Superman(DH23)]

6 hours ago, IronMike84 said:

Like I’ve said, this is just the tip of the iceberg of what we’ll be hearing come CBA negotiation time. 

It would mean something if the Jags were going to void his guarantees.  Spoiler: theyre not.  They arent even voiding his weekly $1000 stipend.  No this won't be even a minor issue in the cba.  

[Sugashane]

So looking at the LB corps. Say Lynch sucks and Fitts/Irving get stonewalled by starting OTs. Do you move Kwiatkoski to OLB or start Acho?

 

I'd start Kwiatkoski. Floyd gets to pin his ears back, Nick is solid vs the run and can rush with some success too. Gets him on the field to get more time to improve long term too, since it think he and Smith are the future at ILB. 

[G08]

On 8/15/2018 at 10:39 AM, Sugashane said:

So looking at the LB corps. Say Lynch sucks and Fitts/Irving get stonewalled by starting OTs. Do you move Kwiatkoski to OLB or start Acho?

 

I'd start Kwiatkoski. Floyd gets to pin his ears back, Nick is solid vs the run and can rush with some success too. Gets him on the field to get more time to improve long term too, since it tjink he and Smith are the future at ILB. 

I like Kwiatkoski a lot inside, I get that he can crush most TEs/RBs when he's got a head of steam, but I'd rather do that in a 3 LB set with him randomly blitzing.

I like Fitts a ton and Irving quietly has surprised me... I think they'll be good in rotation.

[Sugashane]

2 minutes ago, G08 said:

I like Kwiatkoski a lot inside, I get that he can crush most TEs/RBs when he's got a head of steam, but I'd rather do that in a 3 LB set with him randomly blitzing.

I like Fitts a ton and Irving quietly has surprised me... I think they'll be good in rotation.

 

That actually is about what this would be. Essentially you would have a 4-3 with more flexibility (Floyd being able to move around) Essentially you have 3 ILBs on the field, assuming a 4-3 role.

WILL - Smith - he is the most athletic without question. Will help in coverage and come up a lot. Occasionally blitz.

MIKE - Trevathan - most experience, hell of an all around ILB

SAM - Kwiatkoski - most physically imposing, can blitz as needed and come up vs the run. Would blitz the most of the 3.

 

I like Kwiatkoski on the inside too, and remember DT has missed a fair bit of time too. Nick will likely get at least a few starts at ILB this year just off that.

 

I hope Fitts or Irving can lock the spot for the next 10 years, just have to see more to get my hopes up. I don't think they can drop back with any regularity either so it seems Floyd would be dropping back more with them too.

[G08]

Just now, Sugashane said:

WILL - Smith - he is the most athletic without question

Mediocre rapper, doe....

 

 

 

 

I'll see myself out.

[dll2000]

On 8/14/2018 at 1:38 AM, Superman(DH23) said:

It would mean something if the Jags were going to void his guarantees.  Spoiler: theyre not.  They arent even voiding his weekly $1000 stipend.  No this won't be even a minor issue in the cba.  

Ramsey has been a pro bowler though.  Would they move to take some money back f Ramsey was a bust thus far? 

If Kevin White was a discipline problem say?  Would Bears void some of his money for acting up?   

[dll2000]

38 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

 

That actually is about what this would be. Essentially you would have a 4-3 with more flexibility (Floyd being able to move around) Essentially you have 3 ILBs on the field, assuming a 4-3 role.

WILL - Smith - he is the most athletic without question. Will help in coverage and come up a lot. Occasionally blitz.

MIKE - Trevathan - most experience, hell of an all around ILB

SAM - Kwiatkoski - most physically imposing, can blitz as needed and come up vs the run. Would blitz the most of the 3.

 

I like Kwiatkoski on the inside too, and remember DT has missed a fair bit of time too. Nick will likely get at least a few starts at ILB this year just off that.

 

I hope Fitts or Irving can lock the spot for the next 10 years, just have to see more to get my hopes up. I don't think they can drop back with any regularity either so it seems Floyd would be dropping back more with them too.

You think they would change to 4-3 because Kwiatkoski is having a good camp?  Interesting speculative thinking, but that is pretty far fetched IMO.  Maybe you meant they would still play a 3-4, but Kwait would play it more like a Sam in a 4-3.   I don't even think they will consider moving him to OLB unless guys start dropping like flies and its an absolute emergency.   

I think Kwiatkoski is simply depth now.  Roquan will start game 1 I believe.   Even if they string him a long a bit in preseason because of hold out.   He was 8th pick in draft and plays ILB, and this after every other 1st round pick of Pace has not lit world on fire yet.  MT is still developing, White is a bust and Floyd is average at best thus far.  These were all top 10 picks.  This one has to be a hit and hit early or Pace looks bad.   RQ is starting unless he is hurt.   

DT or Roquan will probably go down at some point this season at least for a game or two and Kait will start then.  He likely takes over for DT next year unless this years or next years draft pick or FA beats him out.  

 

 

 

[Sugashane]

3 hours ago, G08 said:

Mediocre rapper, doe....

I'll see myself out.

Spent too much time on these sick moves bruh

 

 

2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

You think they would change to 4-3 because Kwiatkoski is having a good camp?  Interesting speculative thinking, but that is pretty far fetched IMO.  Maybe you meant they would still play a 3-4, but Kwait would play it more like a Sam in a 4-3.   I don't even think they will consider moving him to OLB unless guys start dropping like flies and its an absolute emergency.   

I think Kwiatkoski is simply depth now.  Roquan will start game 1 I believe.   Even if they string him a long a bit in preseason because of hold out.   He was 8th pick in draft and plays ILB, and this after every other 1st round pick of Pace has not lit world on fire yet.  MT is still developing, White is a bust and Floyd is average at best thus far.  These were all top 10 picks.  This one has to be a hit and hit early or Pace looks bad.   RQ is starting unless he is hurt.   

DT or Roquan will probably go down at some point this season at least for a game or two and Kait will start then.  He likely takes over for DT next year unless this years or next years draft pick or FA beats him out.  

 

My bad. I mean the 3 LBs other than Floyd would basically have the responsibilities most 4-3s would, Nick playing much like a SAM in the 4-3. I want Floyd rushing 90% of the time, and with Fangio rushing 4 almost exclusively that isn't much of a variance from what we have had. Outside of putting Kwiatkoski there wouldn't be any personnel or scheme changes. When we had Houston/Young/McPhee they were so limited in their pass coverage that they would be the primary rusher and Floyd would drop back a lot.If Floyd wants to be worth the huge contract he is going to want at OLB, he needs to be able to prove he can  get to the QB and do it frequently. Personally I don't think they will consider it, but I would much prefer that over Lynch or Acho personally. I really hope Fitts takes the spot and runs with it.

 

Kwiatkoski is definitely depth now. Trevathan will have a telling year though. He started his career looking durable but has played 3 games one season and 9 another over the last 4 years. If he misses significant time then I think we have to look at other options. He is 28 not likely to become more durable as he ages. He isn't making a huge amount so that isn't an issue, but if Kwiatkoski can play at a similar level and be durable why hold onto DT?

[dll2000]

15 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

 

 

He isn't making a huge amount so that isn't an issue, but if Kwiatkoski can play at a similar level and be durable why hold onto DT?

 

Because DT is still making much more than an average ILB and that's what NFL does.  They get younger and cheaper whenever and wherever possible. 

If DT doesn't play exceptionally well or if they have faith in Kwait to be good then DT is gone next year.  That being said, I like DT.  I think when healthy he is a very good ILB, way above average.  And I think a good ILB is worth a lot to a defense.  But that isn't CW.  

Teams don't want to overly invest in ILB's.  They spend on edge rush, then DL/corners, then ILB's/safeties.  On offense it's QB (on 2nd contract), OL/WRs, TE, RBs.

I personally think RBs are undervalued if they can catch and run or simply run very well.   They are focal point of offense unless QB is Brady, Manning or Breese.   Problem is it is hard to keep them healthy, if they get hurt you are SOL if you over spent. Therein lies the problem with over paying them.  I think drafting them early when they are uber talented is a different ball of wax.  

I believe people get snookered by fact that a few teams or so find a really good RB in mid rounds every year.   Writers, pod casters, whoever, think people can grab a good RB at will.  Just wait and one will appear before you.  POOF!   Pro bowl RB.   Yeah, X team did it.  But it isn't so easy. 

I count 15 RBs taken in 3rd,4th and 5th round in 2017.  A way above average year for good RBs drafted.  You got Hunt, Kamara and Cohen.   In one of best years ever you had only a 20% chance of landing a good one in the mid rounds.

In 2016 there was 11 RBs taken in mid rounds.  You got Jordan Howard and maybe Collins who are good backs.  2 of 11  18% and that's IF you count Collins who hasn't done much yet AND I would note people aren't sold on Howard completely because he doesn't catch that great.  

Better than 80% of time you are going to try and fail to get a good back in mid rounds.  And its the player on team who will get 2nd most touches of ball after QB (not counting center).

I think Giants were stupid to draft Barkley over a QB or trading the pick, BUT Barkely will mean more wins to Giants this season than any other player they could have drafted.  Barring injury of course.  So given situation they were stupid, but Barkely is very deserving on being picked in top 4 of that draft.   Guy is a freak.  

Dallas drafted Zeke and in one year they went from zero to hero with a rookie QB.  Jags added a bunch of pieces, but still went from zero to heroes after drafting a RB in 1st.  Kamara gets added and Saints are contenders.   RBs can mean big turn around in win totals.     

Yo Holmes smell you later!  

 

 

  

 

 

 

[Superman(DH23)]

6 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Ramsey has been a pro bowler though.  Would they move to take some money back f Ramsey was a bust thus far? 

If Kevin White was a discipline problem say?  Would Bears void some of his money for acting up?   

Let me put it this way...to the best of my knowledge this provision exists in every contract.  Also to the best of my knowledge this provision has never been exercised for a first round pick.  Iow its language that is virtually never exercised for a player it likely is never going to be exercised again.  The agents stance on this issue makes no sense.

[Sugashane]

6 hours ago, dll2000 said:

 

Because DT is still making much more than an average ILB and that's what NFL does.  They get younger and cheaper whenever and wherever possible. 

If DT doesn't play exceptionally well or if they have faith in Kwait to be good then DT is gone next year.  That being said, I like DT.  I think when healthy he is a very good ILB, way above average.  And I think a good ILB is worth a lot to a defense.  But that isn't CW.  

Teams don't want to overly invest in ILB's.  They spend on edge rush, then DL/corners, then ILB's/safeties.  On offense it's QB (on 2nd contract), OL/WRs, TE, RBs.

I personally think RBs are undervalued if they can catch and run or simply run very well.   They are focal point of offense unless QB is Brady, Manning or Breese.   Problem is it is hard to keep them healthy, if they get hurt you are SOL if you over spent. Therein lies the problem with over paying them.  I think drafting them early when they are uber talented is a different ball of wax.  

I believe people get snookered by fact that a few teams or so find a really good RB in mid rounds every year.   Writers, pod casters, whoever, think people can grab a good RB at will.  Just wait and one will appear before you.  POOF!   Pro bowl RB.   Yeah, X team did it.  But it isn't so easy. 

I count 15 RBs taken in 3rd,4th and 5th round in 2017.  A way above average year for good RBs drafted.  You got Hunt, Kamara and Cohen.   In one of best years ever you had only a 20% chance of landing a good one in the mid rounds.

In 2016 there was 11 RBs taken in mid rounds.  You got Jordan Howard and maybe Collins who are good backs.  2 of 11  18% and that's IF you count Collins who hasn't done much yet AND I would note people aren't sold on Howard completely because he doesn't catch that great.  

Better than 80% of time you are going to try and fail to get a good back in mid rounds.  And its the player on team who will get 2nd most touches of ball after QB (not counting center).

I think Giants were stupid to draft Barkley over a QB or trading the pick, BUT Barkely will mean more wins to Giants this season than any other player they could have drafted.  Barring injury of course.  So given situation they were stupid, but Barkely is very deserving on being picked in top 4 of that draft.   Guy is a freak.  

Dallas drafted Zeke and in one year they went from zero to hero with a rookie QB.  Jags added a bunch of pieces, but still went from zero to heroes after drafting a RB in 1st.  Kamara gets added and Saints are contenders.   RBs can mean big turn around in win totals.     

Yo Holmes smell you later!  

 

I completely agree for the most part (and the Will Smith reference), but the bolded seems a bit misleading. In 2015 DAL was 3-1 before Romo went down, then the ragtag trio of Cassell, Moore, and Weeden fumbled to a 1-11 record over the last 12 games. Witten was his usual self but Bryant was out for almost half the season, etc. They were near the very bottom in pass yards, INTs, and passing TDs. They scored over 100 points less than any other team in their division, while allowing the least points. Defense was actually pretty good in spite of having zero support from the offense. They were playoff team that had zero talent behind Romo and paid for it. If he was healthy they were probably a 10-11 win team in that division that year.

 

Then you get Elliott with an already great OL, a defense playing at a top 5 level, and Prescott's mobility and penchant for limiting turnovers and the change was less dramatic than it appeared.