diamondbull424 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, paraven said: would have rather picked rudolph in the second round then trading up for jackson What have you seen from Mason Rudolph that you like and makes you believe he will succeed as a starting NFL quarterback? As per Greg Cosell (and I agree because this is what I saw of him) Rudolph comes from an air raid system with route concepts that don’t translate to the NFL, he struggles with passing accuracy, he has only an average NFL arm, and he struggles with decision making on third downs or when the pocket is dirty. He’s as big of a project as Jackson as a passer, only he’s not a generation athlete. But if you see something that justifies your reasoning, I would be interested in hearing what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraven Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said: Because all of these organizations are trying to win now. The teams that needed QBs above all else, draft them high. The Jaguars, Chargers, Ravens, Steelers, and Patriots likely all looked at Jackson as a luxury pick. Don’t forget that we also passed on Lamar Jackson to fill a needed position at TE. Just like the other teams passed on him for needs. Kind of like how we have a quality RB in Alex Collins, but would easily take a top flight RB prospect if he falls and we’ve answered other glaring concerns. The Steelers have even less draft capital than us. We only were able to move up for Jackson because we picked up the 65th pick in this draft. It means trading away a future second isn’t so big a deal now. If we remove the prospects/picks part from the equation for a second and focus specifically on just the top 150 picks, this is what we did: 2018 1st round pick- 25th 2018 1st round pick- 31st 2018 3rd round pick- 65th 2018 3rd round pick- 83rd 2018 4th round pick- 118th 2018 4th round pick- 132nd 2019 1st round pick 2019 2nd round pick- 61st 2019 3rd round pick 2019 4th round pick 2019 4th round comp? Let’s say the Ravens make it to the playoffs after drafting well and fixing holes. Playoff Flacco is a beast and so we get to the AFCCG but lose. We get the 61st pick similar to the Jaguars. The value the we were able to obtain from trading down in the first round allows us to gain two top 150 picks in the draft (usually this is an indicator of instant impact/high level potential options- especially in this draft class). So if we look at the big picture, we were able to essentially trade away our future 2nd rounder (61st??) for a pick of similar value in a stronger than normal middle round (65th). Add on the improvement from a 5th round to the 4th round as well and that means we had a slight luxury cushion that we could afford to use. We decided to use that cushion that we afforded ourselves in trading back to take Lamar Jackson. So now looking at this again from another perspective that you might not agree with: Lamar Jackson > Derwin James Lamar Jackson >Tremaine Edmunds Lamar Jackson > DJ Moore Lamar Jackson > Calvin Ridley The reason I would state the above comparisons is because if I look at the 00s and compared, I would say: Prime Mike Vick > Adrian Wilson Prime Mike Vick > Karlos Dansby Prime Mike Vick > Steve Smith Prime Mike Vick > Chad Johnson there is no way Lamar Jackson even comes close to becoming a Prime Mike Vick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraven Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said: What have you seen from Mason Rudolph that you like and makes you believe he will succeed as a starting NFL quarterback? As per Greg Cosell (and I agree because this is what I saw of him) Rudolph comes from an air raid system with route concepts that don’t translate to the NFL, he struggles with passing accuracy, he has only an average NFL arm, and he struggles with decision making on third downs or when the pocket is dirty. He’s as big of a project as Jackson as a passer, only he’s not a generation athlete. But if you see something that justifies your reasoning, I would be interested in hearing what it is. I should clarify by saying if Jackson or Rudolph were there at 52, I would go with Jackson, I just dont agree trading up for a player, who wont have an impact for another 1 or 2 years. So assuming Jackson would be gone, I would have been ok with Rudolph at 52, and to keep our 2nd rounder next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drd23 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 4 hours ago, diamondbull424 said: Yeah, this was so awesome to watch! Really shows the bond these guys have as teammates. You dont celebrate that hard for someone you’re “just kind of cool with”. Especially in a moment that is about you. Nobody would have thought anything bad about Jaire if he'd just said "Yes! That's great for Lamar!" and then continued on with what he was doing. Instead you get a minute of that celebration which clearly shows that Jackson means something to him as a teammate and friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Just now, drd23 said: Especially in a moment that is about you. Nobody would have thought anything bad about Jaire if he'd just said "Yes! That's great for Lamar!" and then continued on with what he was doing. Instead you get a minute of that celebration which clearly shows that Jackson means something to him as a teammate and friend He couldn't shake the excitement loose and focus on his own situation. Shows the Packers and Ravens both picked stellar kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp6488 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 22 hours ago, drd23 said: The 5th year option is big for QBs because of home much they need to be paid from their 2nd contract onwards. Given that Flacco will still be the QB for 2018 (or at least most of it), having Lamar locked down on a cost-controlled contract for as long as possible is even more important 22 hours ago, paraven said: flacco will be QB for at least 3 years... book it.Jackson isnt nfl ready and wont be for a while I haven't read whole thread (or much of the updates since last night), so I apologize if that has been discussed ad nauseum. Getting the 5th year option is HUGE, especially in the latter half of the first. He would be cheaper than the other 4 first round QBs if they all have theirs picked up. Joe is obviously the QB for 2018, but this doesn't guarantee he's gone after. If he steps his game up, he could easily be our guy for 2-3 years. Wouldn't be bad to let Jackson season (a la Rodgers). Our investment isn't huge (we didn't even give up a future first). Also, not sure we would have another opportunity to grab a guy like this again and have him ready to possibly step in for 2019 if needed. I was against this pick at 16, but kind of like it at 32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drd23 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Another thing to note is that the 2019 QB draft looks horrible at this stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp6488 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Here's a question... Is RG3 definitely gone? Or, alternatively, do they go with 3 QBs so that Jackson does not have to step into a game this season under any circumstance and can focus completely on improving footwork, mechanics and learning NFL playbook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, sp6488 said: Here's a question... Is RG3 definitely gone? Or, alternatively, do they go with 3 QBs so that Jackson does not have to step into a game this season under any circumstance and can focus completely on improving footwork, mechanics and learning NFL playbook? Yeah, I’ve been considering that as well. Initially I though maybe you get him on the field to build his confidence and put the pressure on opposing defenses with creative sets. But it’s probably smarter to go with RG3 as the backup so LJ can really focus on making his improvements without seeing any scrutiny for the adjustments forcing him to regress, until he gets comfortable to take huge gains in his technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coordinator0 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 I would keep Griffin around for a season if he has anything to offer Jackson. It's just one roster spot, and he's making the minimum. Though, I'm not sure I actually want him mentoring Lamar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp6488 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Just now, coordinator0 said: I would keep Griffin around for a season if he has anything to offer Jackson. It's just one roster spot, and he's making the minimum. Though, I'm not sure I actually want him mentoring Lamar... I wouldn't think he's mentoring/teaching/etc. (although, he could certainly be a "Scared Straight" for avoiding injury as a mobile QB). I honestly would more keep him around as the actual backup so that Jackson doesn't need to set foot in a game under any circumstance. Avoid any poor habits being formed/reinforced in his development (improving footwork, getting NFL-ready). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, coordinator0 said: Though, I'm not sure I actually want him mentoring Lamar... It's always good to keep a loser or two around a winner so they know how special they are and not to waste or screw it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Plus we literally have very little to gain by playing Lamar Jackson other than appeasing fans. However with both RG3 and Joe Flacco they could command trades for us. If RG3 gets those sub packages we would’ve given to Jackson and crushes, if he dominates preseason and regular season opportunities, we might be able to trade him for a QB at some point before the trade deadline runs up. It’s probably not likely, but it could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp6488 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said: Plus we literally have very little to gain by playing Lamar Jackson other than appeasing fans. However with both RG3 and Joe Flacco they could command trades for us. If RG3 gets those sub packages we would’ve given to Jackson and crushes, if he dominates preseason and regular season opportunities, we might be able to trade him for a QB at some point before the trade deadline runs up. It’s probably not likely, but it could happen. Really comes down to who the 54th player is if we cut him I guess. Then how that measures up to the value of protecting Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 Just in case people would like to see film session on Lamar Jackson. Probably not my favorite film analyst, but he’s definitely more on the exciting end while still knowing what he’s talking about FTMP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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