BigBearSD Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Snake Plissken said: Nope. You are not taking that player JUST TO FILL A NEED. You take a quality player that makes the team better. We don't know yet whether the 2018 picks will work out or not. But to say the only reason to have taken an OL at 30 would "have been just to fill a need" is not accurate. If you are taking a lower rated player at the position of biggest need over a higher rated player at a position of less need then you are taking them simply to fill the need. At this point we don't even know where Williams/Hernandez/Daniels will be taken what if they are all drafted in the middle part of the 2nd? Then would you stand by this opinion? Hernandez alone is not a very good fit for the Vikings scheme that alone would make his choice at 30 simply filling a need. It's also quite possible that the NFL teams think Daniels is a pure C prospect and have his prospects as OG rated lower. Also possible Connor Williams just isn't as highly valued by NFL teams as the draft community thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Vikings 2nd and 3rd pick ... could get us to #49 ... 17 picks away or so Then we'd be chilling till the 5th round, pending trades I'd support: moving like next years 3rd for a 4th this year (for example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 I think people are trying to make drafting into an exact science. It isn't science...nor will it ever be! I think to much is made of "value" and "reaching" in draft. I think the argument between drafting the Best Player Available vs. drafting for specific need is a dumb argument. Any GM/Coach that takes one position consistently over the other is doing the franchise a disservice and needs to be fired! Folks, anytime you are dealing with human beings, you are taking a huge risk. You do your due diligence as much as possible, but sometimes you got to go with your gut. In football, I couldn't care less about the "measurables" such as arm strength, 3-cone speed, or how many bench press reps a player can perform. The first three things that should be considered when drafting, trading, or signing a free agent are as follows: 1. Will they help the team win. 2. Are they intelligent and coachable; 3. Are they going to be a problem or asset in the locker room. Any judgement past these three are probably not necessary. Where does this take me? Well, this offseason, the Vikings have one glaring need. The Vikings need good, very good, or great offensive linemen. None have been signed in free agency. No trade for a top offensive lineman has happened. That leaves the draft. The three best interior linemen in the draft (and maybe the three best to come out of college for a while) are Nelson, Wynn and Price. I have got to wonder why the Vikings front office was seemingly not prepared to get in position to grab one of these three? I think Spielman grossly undervalues offensive linemen. He's not alone in the NFL. Hell, every other position is a "skilled" position, then there are offensive linemen! I would argue that it takes just as much skill and brains to play any of the five offensive line positions as receiver, running back, linebacker or DB! It bugs me to no end that offensive linemen are looked as nothing more than brutes or cavemen! (Can you guess where I played when I played organized football??!!) I have no problem with Hughs as a person or a player. I have problems because CB was the pick! Of all times to be drafting for need, when otherwise the team is pretty stacked, it's this year, this draft! In my opinion Spielman blew it in the first round. Let's see if he can redeem himself in the 2nd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 My point is that was/is that taking an OL wouldn't have been "JUST TO FILL A NEED". That there would have been justification for taking one of the available OL. I am not saying that OL must have been the pick, but that taking a quality OL would be justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Weird how the draft boards for other teams include taking first and second round OL...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Hey, did people want the Vikings to draft an OL last night? Just checking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 41 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said: which is why they don't have many (any?) really good OL they've drafted and developed, because "the board never breaks that way", every single year, over and over. The Vikings are lousy at evaluating offensive lineman and assessing their importance to team success IMO. Rick knows how to move up and down the board but he has no idea how to value offensive linemen and therefore never gets in position to draft one of them. The organization, led by Rick Spielman, is incompetent at properly assessing the value of offensive linemen. They both do not value good offensive linemen as much as they should and also are lousy at evaluating which of them are good. While great in other areas, this has been holding the team back in recent years. While there is still some guys on the board I have zero faith that Spielman will properly assess their value and they will end up getting picked by other teams that are better at valuing them. I am fine with the team holding tight at their draft position and taking the best player available to them there. My real disappointment is that the team doesn't fill immediate needs on the offensive line via free agents. Free agency is best suited to deal with immediate needs while the draft is best suited to fill imminent needs. Since the Vikings consistently fail at drafting offensive linemen to fill future needs they should be signing free agents to fill those needs when it is an immediate need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klomp Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: My real disappointment is that the team doesn't fill immediate needs on the offensive line via free agents. Free agency is best suited to deal with immediate needs while the draft is best suited to fill imminent needs. Since the Vikings consistently fail at drafting offensive linemen to fill future needs they should be signing free agents to fill those needs when it is an immediate need. Riley Reiff, Mike Remmers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: The Vikings are lousy at evaluating offensive lineman and assessing their importance to team success IMO. Rick knows how to move up and down the board but he has no idea how to value offensive linemen and therefore never gets in position to draft one of them. The organization, led by Rick Spielman, is incompetent at properly assessing the value of offensive linemen. They both do not value good offensive linemen as much as they should and also are lousy at evaluating which of them are good. While great in other areas, this has been holding the team back in recent years. While there is still some guys on the board I have zero faith that Spielman will properly assess their value and they will end up getting picked by other teams that are better at valuing them. I am fine with the team holding tight at their draft position and taking the best player available to them there. My real disappointment is that the team doesn't fill immediate needs on the offensive line via free agents. Free agency is best suited to deal with immediate needs while the draft is best suited to fill imminent needs. Since the Vikings consistently fail at drafting offensive linemen to fill future needs they should be signing free agents to fill those needs when it is an immediate need. Like Reiff and Remmers? They also used a 3rd on Elflein and traded for Easton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Klomp said: 6 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: Riley Reiff, Mike Remmers? Just now, wcblack34 said: Like Reiff and Remmers? They also used a 3rd on Elflein and traded for Easton. I am well aware of these previous moves. It is painfully obvious that these moves are not enough. Given the immediate need on the offensive line this year the team should have signed a free agent to start. Given the imminent need for the last 15 years the team should have been investing more draft resources into the offensive line in efforts to prevent it from becoming an immediate need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klomp Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 People get way too caught up in having elite OL talent. One elite lineman doesn't make an elite line or drastically improve the entire team. Just ask Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 How about good OL talent? One elite RB doesn't make a team, one elite CB doesn't make a team, one elite DE does not make a team....I don't get your point. It's a team, and teams win and lose by having some elite talent, and no/few gaping holes (other than QB, elite QB can carry a team). I'd not be anywhere near this vocal if this was a one year trend....but it is pretty much every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 16 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: The Vikings are lousy at evaluating offensive lineman and assessing their importance to team success IMO. Rick knows how to move up and down the board but he has no idea how to value offensive linemen and therefore never gets in position to draft one of them. The organization, led by Rick Spielman, is incompetent at properly assessing the value of offensive linemen. They both do not value good offensive linemen as much as they should and also are lousy at evaluating which of them are good. While great in other areas, this has been holding the team back in recent years. While there is still some guys on the board I have zero faith that Spielman will properly assess their value and they will end up getting picked by other teams that are better at valuing them. I am fine with the team holding tight at their draft position and taking the best player available to them there. My real disappointment is that the team doesn't fill immediate needs on the offensive line via free agents. Free agency is best suited to deal with immediate needs while the draft is best suited to fill imminent needs. Since the Vikings consistently fail at drafting offensive linemen to fill future needs they should be signing free agents to fill those needs when it is an immediate need. Replace "offensive line" with "quarterback" and you have the same comments on Spielman 4 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 39 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said: Weird how the draft boards for other teams include taking first and second round OL...... The Packers haven't taken a guard in the first 2 rounds in 20 years...and haven't taken a guard in the draft period in 7. They've taken 3 OTs in the first 2 rounds in the last 8 years (and none in the previous 12 to that) and only 1 has truly panned out to this point. The reality is that there is not yet a true science to evaluating OL translation to the NFL in the current environment of the spread explosion at the college level. That doesn't excuse them from trying, but I understand the hesitation. And what if they had taken Will Hernandez or Connor Williams last night and then he proceeds to fail. Are you then going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say "well, at least he took an OL in the 1st round"? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Just now, disaacs said: The Packers haven't taken a guard in the first 2 rounds in 20 years...and haven't taken a guard in the draft period in 7. They've taken 3 OTs in the first 2 rounds in the last 8 years (and none in the previous 12 to that) and only 1 has truly panned out to this point. we're going to use one team as evidence of something? Clearly, other teams feel drafting OL before late in round 3 is a good idea, because they keep doing it. I've made my points, and ready to move on. I see the Vikings going OL or DE here, or possibly trading back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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