3rd Round Pick (88th Overall): Oren Burks [LB; Vanderbilt]

[Lieker]

1 minute ago, Golfman said:

Josh Jones is going to be an upgrade over Burnett, this year. Burnett, often injured, was solid, but unspectacular when he played. He couldn't catch a cold.

Jones as a rookie was tasked with learning two positions, both difficult to grasp in a coverage ILB and SS. Not an easy task to adapt to one of those, but double duty had him thinking and not playing. McCarthy was RAVING about this kid in camp. How bright he was, his athleticism, etc. The second year leap is going to be real for this kid. This is not a position I worry about.

Burks is going to be asked to POSSIBLY play the inside spot on passing downs. He may not win that job this year and that does not make him a bust. He may well turn out to be our version of Deion Jones from Atlanta. Time will tell on this kid. 

Our secondary will be light years better than last year, but will the pass rush hold up it's end of the bargain? I don't want to hear about how many sacks we had either. The rush was not getting home in any consistent basis to make the QB nervous in the pocket last year. That needs to change. 

 

Speaking to your point on this years pass rush, I believe you will see more consistent pressure due to our defensive line more than anything. A motivated Mo Wilkerson on a 1 year deal in combination with a fast improving Kenny Clark and a stud in Mike Daniels should be one of the better defensive lines in the league. Then you have to consider our depth with an improving Lowry as well as an unproven but very talented Montravius Adams. Heck, our 7th round pick Looney fits the profile as a potential pass rushing d-lineman.

EDGE is a little more worrisome. However, it seems Pettine relies on less on stud EDGE's for pressure, and more on scheme to manufacture it. That said, I like a healthy Matthews and Perry on the edge when healthy. The team seems to be especially high on Beigel. Gilbert based off McCarthy's recent comments seems to be part of our plans as well.

All in all the success of this defense has more to do with health than it does talent or ability IMO. Our defensive back and defensive line groups now have the depth to take on an injury or two, not so much in our EDGE group. I'm hopeful we make a vet depth signing similar to when we acquired Ahmad Brooks. Gute seems to be the type of GM who is willing to acknowledge a weakness and do his due diligence in exploring all avenues to fix it.

[AlexGreen#20]

33 minutes ago, Golfman said:

Josh Jones is going to be an upgrade over Burnett, this year. Burnett, often injured, was solid, but unspectacular when he played. He couldn't catch a cold.

Jones as a rookie was tasked with learning two positions, both difficult to grasp in a coverage ILB and SS. Not an easy task to adapt to one of those, but double duty had him thinking and not playing. McCarthy was RAVING about this kid in camp. How bright he was, his athleticism, etc. The second year leap is going to be real for this kid. This is not a position I worry about.

Burks is going to be asked to POSSIBLY play the inside spot on passing downs. He may not win that job this year and that does not make him a bust. He may well turn out to be our version of Deion Jones from Atlanta. Time will tell on this kid. 

Our secondary will be light years better than last year, but will the pass rush hold up it's end of the bargain? I don't want to hear about how many sacks we had either. The rush was not getting home in any consistent basis to make the QB nervous in the pocket last year. That needs to change. 

 

This might be the most "Early May" post I have ever read. 

[Golfman]

16 minutes ago, Lieker said:

Speaking to your point on this years pass rush, I believe you will see more consistent pressure due to our defensive line more than anything. A motivated Mo Wilkerson on a 1 year deal in combination with a fast improving Kenny Clark and a stud in Mike Daniels should be one of the better defensive lines in the league. Then you have to consider our depth with an improving Lowry as well as an unproven but very talented Montravius Adams. Heck, our 7th round pick Looney fits the profile as a potential pass rushing d-lineman.

EDGE is a little more worrisome. However, it seems Pettine relies on less on stud EDGE's for pressure, and more on scheme to manufacture it. That said, I like a healthy Matthews and Perry on the edge when healthy. The team seems to be especially high on Beigel. Gilbert based off McCarthy's recent comments seems to be part of our plans as well.

All in all the success of this defense has more to do with health than it does talent or ability IMO. Our defensive back and defensive line groups now have the depth to take on an injury or two, not so much in our EDGE group. I'm hopeful we make a vet depth signing similar to when we acquired Ahmad Brooks. Gute seems to be the type of GM who is willing to acknowledge a weakness and do his due diligence in exploring all avenues to fix it.

I may be in the minority on this one, but I think Lowry stepped up pretty well last year in year two. I think he's about as good a 3rd, 3-4 DE as there is with few exceptions. I agree on Adams and am hopeful for Looney. If we go with 6 that would be a pretty good group. Assuming Looney has anything to offer.

I'm not as convinced as you are regarding Perry  and Matthews. I don't see Matthews anywhere near elite any longer regarding his pass rush skills. Also, Perry struggles to stay on the field. That position has me worried, although I agree with Pettine's scheme to generate pressure. A great inside push, which we could get, does make QB's uncomfortable. 

[Golfman]

3 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

This might be the most "Early May" post I have ever read. 

OK, dig this up in October and let's see how I've done! Morgan Burnett played 12 games and had ZERO INT's and 3 passes defended. As "bad" as Josh Jones was in many peoples eyes he had more tackles, more sacks, more INTs and more passes defended as a rookie while trying to learn 2 positions. 

Not sure where the stretch is in my assessment, or do you not think he's capable of improvement?

[Patriotplayer90]

1 hour ago, Golfman said:

OK, dig this up in October and let's see how I've done! Morgan Burnett played 12 games and had ZERO INT's and 3 passes defended. As "bad" as Josh Jones was in many peoples eyes he had more tackles, more sacks, more INTs and more passes defended as a rookie while trying to learn 2 positions. 

Not sure where the stretch is in my assessment, or do you not think he's capable of improvement?

That is Jones for you.  Manic highs and lows.  Sure, he could improve.  But the thing with these hyper-aggressive guys who see red and charge, is that always seems to be a part of their game.  Lack of discipline can be a huge hindrance to improvement.

 

I think he'll be more of a chess piece rather than a true SS, though they all are in a way.

[CWood21]

4 hours ago, Golfman said:

OK, dig this up in October and let's see how I've done! Morgan Burnett played 12 games and had ZERO INT's and 3 passes defended. As "bad" as Josh Jones was in many peoples eyes he had more tackles, more sacks, more INTs and more passes defended as a rookie while trying to learn 2 positions. 

Not sure where the stretch is in my assessment, or do you not think he's capable of improvement?

I mean, if we're going to use splashy stats to evaluate players, let us know first.

[Golfman]

14 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, if we're going to use splashy stats to evaluate players, let us know first.

I believe Josh Jones will make a major improvement in year two. Time will tell, but we didn't lose as much as people think in Morgan Burnett. Just my opinion. 

[SSG]

5 hours ago, Golfman said:

Josh Jones is going to be an upgrade over Burnett, this year. Burnett, often injured, was solid, but unspectacular when he played. He couldn't catch a cold.

Jones as a rookie was tasked with learning two positions, both difficult to grasp in a coverage ILB and SS. Not an easy task to adapt to one of those, but double duty had him thinking and not playing. McCarthy was RAVING about this kid in camp. How bright he was, his athleticism, etc. The second year leap is going to be real for this kid. This is not a position I worry about.

Burks is going to be asked to POSSIBLY play the inside spot on passing downs. He may not win that job this year and that does not make him a bust. He may well turn out to be our version of Deion Jones from Atlanta. Time will tell on this kid. 

Our secondary will be light years better than last year, but will the pass rush hold up it's end of the bargain? I don't want to hear about how many sacks we had either. The rush was not getting home in any consistent basis to make the QB nervous in the pocket last year. That needs to change. 

 

I think this is crazy.  You must have viewed Morgan Burnett as JAG and a fringe NFL starter.  Josh Jones was an absolute abomination in coverage.  Unless he was playing ILB, he looked like he had no business being on the field in passing downs.  I don't see how he's going to make that significant and instant of an improvement to be an upgrade over Burnett who was very stout in coverage. 

I understand that McCarthy was raving about him in camp but find me a player the coaching staff isn't raving about at that time?  Josh Jones didn't look like an every down safety last year.  I've got my doubts that he's going to make that sort of significant and instant improvement that quick.  He's a great athlete but his over aggression killed this defense at time last year and had him looking as bad in coverage as any SS in football last year.  He was one of the NFL's worst rated safeties last year by PFF.  If we're expecting him to start and take over for MB we're going to need MAJOR improvements.

[AlexGreen#20]

This was some ugly *** football by everyone from Vanderbilt. What you can see of Burks doesn't look great. This video is the best argument I've ever seen that the Defensive Line makes the Inside Linebackers. Alabama offensive line beat the **** out of the Vandy front group.

 

Didn't see anything to get me real excited here either. Pretty clear this is an athletic profile specialist/developmental pick. The read and react skills just aren't where they need to be.

[TransientTexan]

4 hours ago, Golfman said:

I may be in the minority on this one, but I think Lowry stepped up pretty well last year in year two. I think he's about as good a 3rd, 3-4 DE as there is with few exceptions. 

Definitely agree with you there. I’ve seen Lowry occasionally mentioned as someone that “needed” to be replaced this offseason, but I don’t buy it. If we compare apples to apples (a team’s 3rd-best DL vs. everyone else’s 3rd-best DL) Lowry looks fairly good. Sure you could find a better DL in the league for the #3 spot, but so could a lot of teams.

[AlexGreen#20]

31 minutes ago, TransientTexan said:

Definitely agree with you there. I’ve seen Lowry occasionally mentioned as someone that “needed” to be replaced this offseason, but I don’t buy it. If we compare apples to apples (a team’s 3rd-best DL vs. everyone else’s 3rd-best DL) Lowry looks fairly good. Sure you could find a better DL in the league for the #3 spot, but so could a lot of teams.

What does Lowry do well?

[snackattack]

5 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

What does Lowry do well?

He can take it to the house

 

 

[TransientTexan]

17 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

What does Lowry do well?

I believe the better question is what do other #3 guys do so well for other teams? 

[JBURGE]

Lowry is a BAD #3 guys... He is a fringe roster player. He is also #4 or #5 for us, depending on what Montravius Adams does this offseason

[TransientTexan]

4 minutes ago, JBURGE25 said:

Lowry is a BAD #3 guys... 

How many #3 guys are better? He’s at least middle-of-the-pack.