drfrey13 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 On the subject of coaches knowing more than us about a player. I believe this to a certain point is helpful but can also backfire. As a coach or scout that interacts with a player your opinions of players may begin to change based on if you like the person. I understand that these coaches and scouts are professionals but psychologically it can happen without even realizing it. Also if you put to much weight on how this player will interact off the field with his teammates. For some players I believe us fans have a better perspective because all we know is the game film or the news about a player. We do not sit with the player as they explain how it was not their fault or will not happen again. If you mesh with someone you will be more likely to give them a second chance even if they do not deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 On 5/7/2018 at 11:28 AM, NickButera said: I'm skeptical that Reggie and/or Gruden came out and said they had gotten the top two pass rushing DTs on the board. Did they really have Hall ranked above Vea? That just seems odd. i honestly think Vea is overrated, especially with the Ngata comparison. He is no Haloti, and if that is what you are expecting then you are going to be very disappointed. Vea is more DT than 3T, we already have Jelly for that. Hall fits more of what we are trying to do defensively(interior pass rush) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer026 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 On 5/7/2018 at 2:28 PM, NickButera said: I'm skeptical that Reggie and/or Gruden came out and said they had gotten the top two pass rushing DTs on the board. Did they really have Hall ranked above Vea? That just seems odd. Since they said specifically pass rushing DTs, I don't think that it's really that bold of a statement. I actually believe them. Now if they said they were the two best DTs in the draft, I'd be more skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BABYLON 5 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 When they announced him I had a WTF Mike Mitchel moment. After seeing his measurables and games I am excited but am still cautious because of Mike Mitchell. Can not wait to see him go up against NFL level talent. Although I did not like how we have done it and believe there is still work to do this defense does look improved. Just need a couple rookies to play well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daineraider Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 8 hours ago, drfrey13 said: When they announced him I had a WTF Mike Mitchel moment. After seeing his measurables and games I am excited but am still cautious because of Mike Mitchell. Can not wait to see him go up against NFL level talent. Although I did not like how we have done it and believe there is still work to do this defense does look improved. Just need a couple rookies to play well. Mitchell has lasted longer in the NFL than most 2nd round picks from that draft(not justifying the 2nd round pick used in him). So to me that wouldn’t be a great example. Miller+Hall in rounds 1-2 felt similar to the DHB pick. Hall is pretty impressive in lots of his games. I am coming around to this pick. I’m hopeful his game will translate to a solid 3t position in the NFL. Miller I still need convincing of. The size and athletic ability is a plus, but nothing jumps off the screen while watching him. He plays a bit soft and doesn’t seem to have that mean streak. Hopefully he can improve his punch and keep his feet balanced underneath his body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiders4life Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 9 hours ago, drfrey13 said: When they announced him I had a WTF Mike Mitchel moment. After seeing his measurables and games I am excited but am still cautious because of Mike Mitchell. Can not wait to see him go up against NFL level talent. Although I did not like how we have done it and believe there is still work to do this defense does look improved. Just need a couple rookies to play well. It's funny, Mike Mitchell is probably THE player that woke me up to what the draft (and the media's coverage of it) really is. It's a crap shoot! Everyone is guessing and the little things they talk about (hand size!) only improve a player's chance to be a success by a very marginal %. Every media person was BAFFLED by the Mitchell pick. I remember Mayock saying he knew almost nothing about him. Like daine said, maybe the % chance that he would succeed when drafted was lower than other 2nd rounders, but he's had a better career than a LOT of the "sure fire, high motor, NFL ready studs" that the media pumps up. It's all a show, albeit a very entertaining one, but don't get caught up in the circus. You don't walk away from the slot machine until the wheels stop no matter how long the odds are. You can change the paylines you're playing to slightly improve your odds, but the odds of winning are always a long shot, yet you always think "this is the one". Big picture, this is what the draft really is. The intricacies and details (combine stats, d1 player etc..) may increase the number of paylines, but once that draft card is sent in, the lever is pulled, and those wheels on the slots start turning.. We can only hope that this is the spin that's a winner. Now, the good thing is, by the time those wheels stop in a losing order a year or two later, and the player is a consensus bust, we forget how much we had really invested in that spin. See? There's already a few more slots in motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 hours ago, raiders4life said: It's funny, Mike Mitchell is probably THE player that woke me up to what the draft (and the media's coverage of it) really is. It's a crap shoot! I disagree. There seems to be a prevailing sentiment that draft picks are random, but they're really not. If this were true, All-Pro, Pro Bowl, and quality starters would be equally distributed throughout the 7 rounds. The vast majority of good players in the NFL are picked in the first three rounds so NFL teams are "getting it right" for the most part. We trumpet the successes of 6th rounders like Brady and Brown but ignore that the best quarterbacks and receivers in the NFL were largely taken in the first and second rounds. I view the main problem with how people see the draft is curbing their expectations for players in the later rounds. The trouble with the draft isn't that we don't know who will be good -- we have a pretty good idea of that -- but that most of these players will fail to meet expectations. There is solid logic in taking Hall where the Raiders did. He has the production numbers -- albeit in a lesser conference -- to back up his incredible testing numbers, which is what you want to see from small school prospects. He was a guy I was personally targeting for the Raiders in the 3rd round, but I believe he has legitimate DPoY potential so I can't hate taking him later in round 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiders4life Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 hours ago, Rich7sena said: I disagree. There seems to be a prevailing sentiment that draft picks are random, but they're really not. If this were true, All-Pro, Pro Bowl, and quality starters would be equally distributed throughout the 7 rounds. The vast majority of good players in the NFL are picked in the first three rounds so NFL teams are "getting it right" for the most part. We trumpet the successes of 6th rounders like Brady and Brown but ignore that the best quarterbacks and receivers in the NFL were largely taken in the first and second rounds. I view the main problem with how people see the draft is curbing their expectations for players in the later rounds. The trouble with the draft isn't that we don't know who will be good -- we have a pretty good idea of that -- but that most of these players will fail to meet expectations. Totally agree with you and this was what my whole "paylines" idea was trying to get at. Day 1/2 picks are like going to the slot and putting in a bet on all the lines. Your chances of winning are higher, but you pay more for the spin. Chances are you still won't win big, but your chance of a win/hit is better than doing a single line bet (7th RDer). Do agree with you on Hall too. I remember him being labelled as a 4th RDer. However, it's situations like Mike Mitchell's that make me put very little value on pre draft labels. It's all speculation. Maybe my crap shoot comment should've been narrowed in scope.. I had meant in terms of media predictions, not necessarily actual draft location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BABYLON 5 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I was really prize when we made this pick on draft day, but the more I read about him I'm really big on him .The guy is a different type freak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 19 hours ago, BABYLON 5 said: I was really prize when we made this pick on draft day, but the more I read about him I'm really big on him .The guy is a different type freak guy needs to relax.... don't want to see him get hurt showcasing his freak abilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyghost Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Raider fans must chill, again. Plenty of physical freaks out there. Including that dude who did back flips at 380 and didn't even make an NFL team. The issue with Hall and his potential success is not in his physical ability. He has NFL high level physical ability. The issue will be if he can exist day in and day out in the mental and emotional grinder of pressure, constant microscope, and big stage that is the NFL. Compared to playing in front of how many people in college? Big fish in small pond goes directly to huge pond as tiny fish. It's taken out of play sooooo many players, all of whom who could physically do it. Whatever speed and size the guy has is not going to be the determining factor of whether or not he can live up to 2nd round draft status and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 It's not Hall on the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 6 hours ago, oakdb36 said: It's not Hall on the video. Doesn't look like him and it's from a fake Albert Breer account. If that was real, it'd make news in this slow cycle with the local beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungJefe Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 On 5/28/2018 at 6:46 PM, holyghost said: Whatever speed and size the guy has is not going to be the determining factor of whether or not he can live up to 2nd round draft status and beyond. Aside from being a great athlete he also looks like a great football player, he did what he was supposed to do at a lower level, he was unstoppable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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