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Rnd3 pick 1- OT Brandon Parker

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On 28/04/2018 at 4:49 PM, drfrey13 said:

With his forty time above 5.4 most teams are not going to touch him.  I pointed this out when people were wondering about Vadal Alexander falling.  Also with the us being this aggressive with the o-line maybe there is something with Penn that we do not know about.  He might not play anymore.

If we were going to take a long shot on a tackle at this spot - and Parker is at best a long shot - I'd much have preferred we went with a guy like Orlando Brown. Now, I know he had a terrible combine and effectively performing so badly at the biggest job interview of your life is a red flag, but things like a 40 time is pretty easy to improve, especially as Brown looks 10 to 20 pounds over his optimum size. Technique and skills are harder to improve and whilst Brown put down some pretty good performances and tape and clearly can play tackle at a decent level when I saw Parker at the Senior Bowl he looked awful.  Not a fan of this pick at all but time will tell whether we can turn this ugly duckling into a swan......................

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2 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

If we were going to take a long shot on a tackle at this spot - and Parker is at best a long shot - I'd much have preferred we went with a guy like Orlando Brown. Now, I know he had a terrible combine and effectively performing so badly at the biggest job interview of your life is a red flag, but things like a 40 time is pretty easy to improve, especially as Brown looks 10 to 20 pounds over his optimum size. Technique and skills are harder to improve and whilst Brown put down some pretty good performances and tape and clearly can play tackle at a decent level when I saw Parker at the Senior Bowl he looked awful.  Not a fan of this pick at all but time will tell whether we can turn this ugly duckling into a swan......................

I agree with you on Brown.  I was just doing my own redraft picks and I have us staying at 75 and taking Brown.  The 5.4 number is just something that teams look at.

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7 hours ago, Darbsk said:

If we were going to take a long shot on a tackle at this spot - and Parker is at best a long shot - I'd much have preferred we went with a guy like Orlando Brown. Now, I know he had a terrible combine and effectively performing so badly at the biggest job interview of your life is a red flag, but things like a 40 time is pretty easy to improve, especially as Brown looks 10 to 20 pounds over his optimum size. Technique and skills are harder to improve and whilst Brown put down some pretty good performances and tape and clearly can play tackle at a decent level when I saw Parker at the Senior Bowl he looked awful.  Not a fan of this pick at all but time will tell whether we can turn this ugly duckling into a swan......................

The guy's combine performance was more than just a bad 40 time. It was a total lack of athleticism. I don't think you guys are taking into account that when the game speeds up in the NFL it can most definitely pose a problem for someone like Brown. As evidenced in guys we've seen up close, such as David Sharpe and Vadal Alexander. They lack the athletic capacity to play the position. Brown, in attempting to be a good tackle in this league, has a significant uphill battle.

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1 hour ago, holyghost said:

The guy's combine performance was more than just a bad 40 time. It was a total lack of athleticism. I don't think you guys are taking into account that when the game speeds up in the NFL it can most definitely pose a problem for someone like Brown. As evidenced in guys we've seen up close, such as David Sharpe and Vadal Alexander. They lack the athletic capacity to play the position. Brown, in attempting to be a good tackle in this league, has a significant uphill battle.

Oh, I totally understand the lack of athleticism shown in the combine, what I am saying is that Brown looked way out of condition (even for a large Lineman) so he could relatively easily IMO improve all those numbers to at least respectable level. His tape is actually pretty good and he’s shown he can play at a high level on the playing field and be effective, also his much vaunted father was not a combine warrior by any means and played against some pretty athletic guys effectively with, ive read, similar combine numbers. What actually is a bigger red flag for me was the lack of prep he’d clearly done. If I was a S&C coach for the Raiders i’d Be pretty confident I could whip him into shape in 3 months IF he was willing.

I’d have taken a chance on the guy that has produced and put on tape good performances against good colllege competition but had a bad combine over the guy with numbers who looked poor on the field.

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2 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Oh, I totally understand the lack of athleticism shown in the combine, what I am saying is that Brown looked way out of condition (even for a large Lineman) so he could relatively easily IMO improve all those numbers to at least respectable level. His tape is actually pretty good and he’s shown he can play at a high level on the playing field and be effective, also his much vaunted father was not a combine warrior by any means and played against some pretty athletic guys effectively with, ive read, similar combine numbers. What actually is a bigger red flag for me was the lack of prep he’d clearly done. If I was a S&C coach for the Raiders i’d Be pretty confident I could whip him into shape in 3 months IF he was willing.

I’d have taken a chance on the guy that has produced and put on tape good performances against good colllege competition but had a bad combine over the guy with numbers who looked poor on the field.

You hit on a big part of the problem with his lack of conditioning. "If he was willing". We're not talking about some guy off the street. He's already a day in day out athlete playing for a major program and lining up to be a NFL professional for many years. It has essentially been his profession for some years now. He wasn't willing on his own, and wasn't willing for the combine. So take into account that for a guy like this to remake his athletic profile and body, if he was motivated to do it he very likely would have already done it. At least to some degree. Also take into account with incredibly hard work he still can never have a high athletic ceiling, but with a massive amount of work his athleticism can become passable for the NFL. All in all, not a great bet on this guy.

I'd also like to comment on Miller. I've seen quite a few posts and opinions now that say he great athletic numbers and poor tape. It's way overblown. Clearly his "tape" left perfection to be desired, he's no Joe Thomas coming out. And a guy like Quenton Nelson I am sure looked much better on film. But does Miller have "poor" tape? Or just not typical top 10 pick tape? 2nd or 3rd round tape? But I really doubt he has dog crap 7th round tape. Nothing I saw said "poor" to me. It's overblown because we all wanted a defender at 10, we all think we didn't get enough for the trade back, we're all traumatized by decades of Al Davis draftees who wouldn't play a lick but were tremendous athletes, and it's all coming out on Miller.

I thought Jack Conklin's tape looked like garbage, he was constantly on one knee. I thought Khalil Mack was getting blown way back on blocks way too much for a top 5 pick. It goes to show that while we all can see if a guy is unbelievable or not so much, we cannot do the scouts jobs. Which there are posts and twitter quotes aplomb saying it is their job to "project" how these guys will translate to the pros. Not just watch film and see how a guy does in college. I know nothing about taking what I see and then figuring out whether the particular negatives will bury a guy in the NFL or not. 

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2 hours ago, holyghost said:

You hit on a big part of the problem with his lack of conditioning. "If he was willing". We're not talking about some guy off the street. He's already a day in day out athlete playing for a major program and lining up to be a NFL professional for many years. It has essentially been his profession for some years now. He wasn't willing on his own, and wasn't willing for the combine. So take into account that for a guy like this to remake his athletic profile and body, if he was motivated to do it he very likely would have already done it. At least to some degree. Also take into account with incredibly hard work he still can never have a high athletic ceiling, but with a massive amount of work his athleticism can become passable for the NFL. All in all, not a great bet on this guy.

I'd also like to comment on Miller. I've seen quite a few posts and opinions now that say he great athletic numbers and poor tape. It's way overblown. Clearly his "tape" left perfection to be desired, he's no Joe Thomas coming out. And a guy like Quenton Nelson I am sure looked much better on film. But does Miller have "poor" tape? Or just not typical top 10 pick tape? 2nd or 3rd round tape? But I really doubt he has dog crap 7th round tape. Nothing I saw said "poor" to me. It's overblown because we all wanted a defender at 10, we all think we didn't get enough for the trade back, we're all traumatized by decades of Al Davis draftees who wouldn't play a lick but were tremendous athletes, and it's all coming out on Miller.

I thought Jack Conklin's tape looked like garbage, he was constantly on one knee. I thought Khalil Mack was getting blown way back on blocks way too much for a top 5 pick. It goes to show that while we all can see if a guy is unbelievable or not so much, we cannot do the scouts jobs. Which there are posts and twitter quotes aplomb saying it is their job to "project" how these guys will translate to the pros. Not just watch film and see how a guy does in college. I know nothing about taking what I see and then figuring out whether the particular negatives will bury a guy in the NFL or not. 

Some really good points there Holyghost and as I say, the lack of preparation and commitment from Brown is a red flag indeed, but also lets not act like trimming a few tenths off a 40 and adding a few more reps on the bench isn't very doable and even with poor combine numbers it's quite debatable if many of the exercises are even particularly relevant to OL play. I think we may be at crossed wires a little as I like Miller as a prospect and wasn't advocating for Brown over Miller, rather that in the third round I'd take the chance on the guy who's produced and has tape but flunked the combine (Brown) over a guy with suspect tape and better numbers in shorts (Parker).

Miller I would say is the superior pick to Brown of course but i'd go with Brown over Parker if I had to gamble on either. The projection is a very important part of course and you are right there - but you have to have a datum or baseline from which to project, if you will, and the datum or baseline is much higher for Brown IMHO than Parker based on what they have actually produced and put down on film thus far.

Of course, with the scheme we may be running they may have very well needed an OT with athleticism to play outside zone runs or lots of pulling etc. and his athleticism might have been desired more than actual blocking skills which would be another consideration but we just don't know as yet.

 

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6 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Some really good points there Holyghost and as I say, the lack of preparation and commitment from Brown is a red flag indeed, but also lets not act like trimming a few tenths off a 40 and adding a few more reps on the bench isn't very doable and even with poor combine numbers it's quite debatable if many of the exercises are even particularly relevant to OL play. I think we may be at crossed wires a little as I like Miller as a prospect and wasn't advocating for Brown over Miller, rather that in the third round I'd take the chance on the guy who's produced and has tape but flunked the combine (Brown) over a guy with suspect tape and better numbers in shorts (Parker).

Miller I would say is the superior pick to Brown of course but i'd go with Brown over Parker if I had to gamble on either. The projection is a very important part of course and you are right there - but you have to have a datum or baseline from which to project, if you will, and the datum or baseline is much higher for Brown IMHO than Parker based on what they have actually produced and put down on film thus far.

Of course, with the scheme we may be running they may have very well needed an OT with athleticism to play outside zone runs or lots of pulling etc. and his athleticism might have been desired more than actual blocking skills which would be another consideration but we just don't know as yet.

 

We're mostly in agreement here.

In reply, a few tenths off the 40, irrelevent as it is, still would put the guy at poor to average for athleticism. Still no bueno for NFL play. For a guy that slow to also lack strength, yeesh.

No idea what Parker does or doesn't really offer so I can't comment plus or minus on that. I don't think he had poor tape, same as Miller it's overblown. But the tape is lower level competition. And at the Snior Bowl he did give up pressures and sacks. In his defense, they're moving him to left and right play to play. That's just absurd.

But I do contend I think Brown has next to no chance to bring the kind of success he had in college into the pros. Parker may and we'll see, I don't think Brown has a snowball's chance in hell. 

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Oak DB put this in another thread:

http://only1nation.com/2018/05/01/a-tale-of-two-tackles-kolton-miller-brandon-parker/

It breaks down some footage of Parker doing some good things at the senior bowl. Plus the FO obviously liked what he did there as during the draft phone call, Reggie said to Parker something to to the effect of 'I told you we were going to pick you'. 

 

 

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13 hours ago, reddevil said:

Oak DB put this in another thread:

http://only1nation.com/2018/05/01/a-tale-of-two-tackles-kolton-miller-brandon-parker/

It breaks down some footage of Parker doing some good things at the senior bowl. Plus the FO obviously liked what he did there as during the draft phone call, Reggie said to Parker something to to the effect of 'I told you we were going to pick you'. 

 

 

Thanks for posting that Reddevil, was good to see particularly the breakdown on Parker. It will be interesting to see who pans out where at OT. We've got plenty of bodies there and apparently some decent potential.

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