Hard Knocks: Offseason

[Soko]

7 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Put Barkley in a corner?  Schoen offered up his olive branch by not tagging Barkley.  All he asked in return was that if he got an offer that exceeded what the Giants' offer would be that he'd be given the opportunity to match.  That seems like a rather fair deal all things considered.  That's not Schoen demanding assurances that IF the Giants matched another offer that Barkley would return.  The only FO personnel in the room that felt they "needed" to retain Barkley was John Mara (IIRC).  And I'd argue that his motivation was less to do with on-the-field production and more to do with the fans.

Yes, I would say “do you promise to circle back? Or will you not even give us a chance?” is putting someone in a corner. As in, Saquon if you don’t give us a chance to match, you’re the bad guy. You’re the one giving up and not making this work.

You’re totally understating the literal words of that conversation. Schoen asked him multiple times to promise to call him back. He said “or are you not even going to give us a chance?” Like, that’s not just “hey man, we’ve been doing this song and dance for awhile, and while it hasn’t worked out yet, I want you here and I want  to make sure you’re getting the best deal possible”. The phrasing he does is very typical, “put you in a corner” type stuff. “Are you stupid, or are you deaf” kinda talk.

7 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

You have to as a GM do your due diligence.  Even if you're convinced that a healthy Daniel Jones is Patrick Mahomes 2.0, you're still going to do the legwork of QBs when you're drafting that high.  Doesn't mean you're actually gonna go through with it.  The Commanders weren't going to trade down, and certainly weren't going to trade the pick to the Giants.  And given Wolf's comments, it would have taken an astronomical pick package for the Patriots to move off the pick.  And QBs went 1-2-3, so the Giants effectively had 2 options with their pick.  Keep Daniel Jones at $40M/year and pick the best offensive weapon (MHJ, Nabers, Odunze, or Bowers) to give Daniel Jones every opportunity reaffirm their commitment to him.  Or take a QB (JJ McCarthy or Michael Penix) at 6, and let him sit behind Jones for a year before Jones becomes a cap casualty a year from now.  The Giants chose the former.  You can absolutely want a player back badly, but you're not going to overpay for that player.

We’re kinda going in circles here, so unless you actually answer what I’m asking or address Schoen, I don’t really have much more to add.

I’m not against a GM doing diligence. I’m not against him letting FAs walk. I am against a GM talking to his staff/ownership out of two sides of his mouth. He wasn’t prodding about what it might take to get up to 3. He was actively pushing the issue (“just call us before you do anything, okay?”). I am against a GM trying to make the player look like the bad guy for a rocky negotiation. I am against, or rather find it funny, when a GM pretends like no one’s going to touch their amazing offer in FA, only for that to backfire in his face, right in front of ownership. I am against a GM trying to demean his staff member who was bringing up the possibility that they might be overbid. 

None of that is a necessity of being a GM, and everything you’ve said about doing diligence or doing cost analysis has anything to do with how Schoen went about it or how he spoke to people.

[ramssuperbowl99]

15 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

If you wanted to argue that you feel Schoen didn't know what makes Saquon Barkley tick more, than I wouldn't have an issue with your argument.  But at this point, it's you choosing to 100% believe one side of the discussion and disregarding the other side.  It's like when 2 children start fighting and you're trying to figure out what happened, odds are the truth is somewhere in the middle.  Barkley was upset that a concrete offer didn't come in.  Schoen thought he was doing right by Barkley by not bringing in an offer well below what Barkley wanted.  Seems right to me.

I'm watching the TV show and interviews, and piecing together what is an obvious communication breakdown.

To the bolded, correct:

42 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

A good negotiator is not a robot that pretends feelings don't exist. They recognize what the other party wants, and they find a way to provide it on terms that make sense for everyone. Schoen was a bad negotiator here because he never once recognized that Saquon wanted to feel wanted

 

15 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Barkley was upset that a concrete offer didn't come in.  Schoen thought he was doing right by Barkley by not bringing in an offer well below what Barkley wanted.  Seems right to me.

That's what each party has said, there's not really grey area. And the communication breakdown clearly demonstrates Schoen was not emotionally aware enough to recognize that Barkley would find that disrespectful.

I wouldn't guess Schoen is a mastermind manipulator, I would guess he was so focused on being scared of overpaying that he completely forgot to focus on what the other party was feeling. Which is an embarrassing mistake in hindsight for a professional negotiator, and a tremendously impactful mistake because it lead to him repeatedly hurting Saqon's feelings right before a critical emotional decision.

It's outrageously unaware behavior, and poor negotiating on top of it.

15 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I put them in quotations because respect means different things to different people.  Schoen thought he was giving respect to Barkley by not "low-balling" him and letting the market dictate his value.

This level of communication gap after a year of franchise tag negotiations and a season worth of in-person contact on top of it is embarrassing from a GM. He should know what his players want and how they tick so that they can get deals done. That's his job.

15 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Barkley thought he was disrespected because he never got a concrete offer.  LIS, if you want to knock Schoen for not knowing the guy that is a fair take.

More generally, it's a strong sign that his inability to read people is going to significantly hold him back in his job.

I'd be concerned if I was a Giants fan.

Edited July 25 by ramssuperbowl99