MacReady Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Just now, Superman(DH23) said: You say everything changes, but then expect.the Bears just be status quo. No. I am saying that the Bears have a 3rd, 4th, 5th and 7th round pick and the 6th worst cap space heading into 2019. More importantly, the Packers have the 13th most cap space 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 6th, 7th draft picks. While the Bears will try to keep up with improving teams in their division and around the NFL with the 6th lowest cap space and 4 draft picks total, the Packers will have the 13th most cap space and 10 draft picks, 4 of which in the first three rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: My entire point is that you need that cap space and draft capital to continue to evolve and change to replace aging players and constantly improve. The Bears don't have that ability going forward. Most of the core players are already signed for the next 2, 3 and 4 years and I have already shown in the Bears forum how players like Massie, Callahan and Amos can all be signed this next off-season. Pace's goal was to go all in with hopes of winning a SB within the next 3 years while Mitch is still under his rookie contract. If Mitch don't work out, then we have would have to start all over anyhow in 2021. Would you not agree that the Bears are on a good pace to accomplish this based on this year? Would you not agree the Bears are one of the upcoming teams in the league? QB: Mitch Tribusky signed through 2020 RB: Jordan Howard signed through 2019 RB: Tarik Cohen signed through 2020 TE: Trey Burton signed through 2021 TE: Adam Shaheen signed through 2020 WR: Allen Robinson signed through 2020 WR: Taylor Gabriel signed through 2021 WR: Anthony Miller signed through 2021 RT: Bobby Massie signed through 2018 RG: Kyle Long signed through 2021 C: Cody Whitehar signed through 2019 LG: James Daniels signed through 2021 LT: Charles Leno signed through 2021 DE: Akiem Hicks signed through 2021 NT: Eddie Goldman signed through 2022 DE: Jonathon Bullard signed through 2019 OLB: Khalil Mack signed through 2024 ILB: Danny Trevathan signed through 2019 ILB: Roqaun Smith signed through 2021 OLB: Leonard Floyd signed through 2019 CB: Kyle Fuller signed through 2021 CB: Prince Amukamara signed through 2020 NB: Bryce Callahan signed through 2018 FS: Eddie Jackson signed through 2020 SS: Adrian Amos signed through 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Just now, JustAnotherFan said: Would you not agree that the Bears are on a good pace to accomplish this based on this year? Would you not agree the Bears are one of the upcoming teams in the league? No, the Bears are not in a good position to win a Super Bowl this year. The playoffs are a different animal, and it is exceedingly rare for a first year HC to win a Super Bowl, exceedingly rare for a QB to win a Super Bowl in his first postseason. No, I do not see the Bears as an upcoming team in the league because they have few ways to add to their team in the upcoming seasons. Everything will be harder next year. The rest of the league will add picks, upgrading at other positions through free agency and having the change that's needed to keep up with the rest of the NFL. I will say the Bears are a very talented team right now. I believe you need to constantly change and adapt and improve year to year through draft picks and cap space. Bears don't have that. That's the crux of my argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Nice try to gloss over the other point in order to move the goal posts. 4 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: No, the Bears are not in a good position to win a Super Bowl this year. The playoffs are a different animal, and it is exceedingly rare for a first year HC to win a Super Bowl, exceedingly rare for a QB to win a Super Bowl in his first postseason. Where did I say this year? 7 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: No, I do not see the Bears as an upcoming team in the league Well you're entitled to your own opinion but I doubt you find many people in the world who would agree with this. 8 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Everything will be harder next year. The rest of the league will add picks, upgrading at other positions through free agency and having the change that's needed to keep up with the rest of the NFL. Well ok, since we're playing the what if game. What if the rest of the league adds players and they don't work while the Bears continue to progress. 10 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: I will say the Bears are a very talented team right now. I believe you need to constantly change and adapt and improve year to year through draft picks and cap space. Bears don't have that. That's the crux of my argument. With most of the core players already signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Just now, JustAnotherFan said: Nice try to gloss over the other point in order to move the goal posts. There's really no need for this and it's so effing obnoxious I can't even stand it. Just tell me which point you wanted me to address. I'm not trying any angles here and I have admitted frequently I could be wrong. I'm not acting like an ***hole here, I'm trying to have a discussion. I have frequently acknowledged that this is an opinion regarding a future outcome, so if you want me to address something specific, say it instead of getting passive aggressive like this. God, this crap is so annoying. You can't go five posts in this entire subforum without somebody getting like this. Quote Where did I say this year? The way you had said Pace's goal was to win a Super Bowl in three years, and then asking, "...based on this year..." was misleading, and I mistook what you were asking. Quote Well you're entitled to your own opinion but I doubt you find many people in the world who would agree with this. There are a lot of people who put a significant premium on draft capital and cap space. Quote Well ok, since we're playing the what if game. What if the rest of the league adds players and they don't work while the Bears continue to progress. Then you will have been right and I will have been wrong. That's why I keep saying we will see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 54 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: No, that's actually the entire point to my argument. Teams change. The Bears will change. Without the cap space and draft capital, they will not be able to keep up with the changes of the rest of the NFL. My entire point is that you need that cap space and draft capital to continue to evolve and change to replace aging players and constantly improve. The Bears don't have that ability going forward. Change coming from an abundance of picks and an abundance of cap space typically result in better performance than changes coming from a lack of picks and a lack of cap space. Yes they do. Just because they don't have a 1st or 2nd next year and a 1st in 2020 doesn't mean they won't get better in those years compared to their counterparts. It's not just about quantity but rather quality, and I'd say Ryan Pace has done a good job of finding talent in the mid to late rounds. Plus you are essentially banking on other teams having great drafts with those extra picks the Bears don't have and suddenly becoming better than them. I don't think that's a stretch but that's a lot of assumptions and things needing to go right in order to happen. If you were to ask most NFL GM's right now if they'd rather have Khalil Mack and Anthony Miller over three unknown NFL talents and some extra cap space then I'm pretty sure the consensus answer would be the former unless it was an extremely cap strapped or rebuilding team we're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Just now, topwop1 said: If you were to ask most NFL GM's right now if they'd rather have Khalil Mack and Anthony Miller over three unknown NFL talents and some extra cap space then I'm pretty sure the consensus answer would be the former unless it was an extremely cap strapped or rebuilding team we're talking about. I don't understand why everybody is acting like Anthony Miller is the Khalil Mack of receivers. Anthony Miller right now has 2 more receptions, 53 less yards and three more touchdowns than the Packers 5th round rookie receiver. Anthony Miller isn't exactly super duper Megadupertron receiver right now. Additionally, as to your other point, what would the consensus of GMs prefer as it pertains to keeping pace with improving teams? More or less draft picks, more or less cap space? My point is centered around yearly improvement. The Bears are good now, yes, but in zero shape to get the yearly improvement that other teams will have. Yes, they have some picks, some cap, but comparatively speaking, they're in bad shape as far as improving from this year to next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Outpost31 said: Anthony Miller right now has 2 more receptions, 53 less yards and three more touchdowns than the Packers 5th round rookie receiver. .....While one is playing with a future hall of famer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Just now, JustAnotherFan said: .....While one is playing with a future hall of famer. ...who everybody says is being coached by a head coach who doesn't know how to use his weapons. ...who is also notorious - NOTORIOUS - for taking a very long time to start trusting receiving options. This fact has been echoed by every single receiver to ever have played with Rodgers. Nelson has said it. Jones has said it. Jennings has said it. Driver has said it. Finley has said it. Bennett has said it. You think maybe it takes time for Rodgers to trust his receiving options? And MVS is on pace to do better than any of those receivers did in their rookie years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 14 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: There's really no need for this and it's so effing obnoxious I can't even stand it. Just tell me which point you wanted me to address. I'm not trying any angles here and I have admitted frequently I could be wrong. I'm not acting like an ***hole here, I'm trying to have a discussion. I have frequently acknowledged that this is an opinion regarding a future outcome, so if you want me to address something specific, say it instead of getting passive aggressive like this. God, this crap is so annoying. You can't go five posts in this entire subforum without somebody getting like this. Nobody is calling you anything. Stop being so sensitive. 3 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: My point is centered around yearly improvement. The Bears are good now, yes, but in zero shape to get the yearly improvement that other teams will have. Yes, they have some picks, some cap, but comparatively speaking, they're in bad shape as far as improving from this year to next year. So you're saying there is no chance that any of the players on the current roster are going to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Just now, JustAnotherFan said: Nobody is calling you anything. Stop being so sensitive. False. You just called me sensitive. Quote So you're saying there is no chance that any of the players on the current roster are going to get better. The same exact chance every other player on every other team has of getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Just now, Outpost31 said: ...who everybody says is being coached by a head coach who doesn't know how to use his weapons. ...who is also notorious - NOTORIOUS - for taking a very long time to start trusting receiving options. This fact has been echoed by every single receiver to ever have played with Rodgers. Nelson has said it. Jones has said it. Jennings has said it. Driver has said it. Finley has said it. Bennett has said it. You think maybe it takes time for Rodgers to trust his receiving options? And MVS is on pace to do better than any of those receivers did in their rookie years. You're missing the point. In most cases, will a WR look better with a hall a fame QB or a 2nd year QB who is still virtually a rookie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Outpost31 said: False. You just called me sensitive. The same exact chance every other player on every other team has of getting better. Lol. God you are such a diva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Just now, JustAnotherFan said: You're missing the point. In most cases, will a WR look better with a hall a fame QB or a 2nd year QB who is still virtually a rookie? Yes, but Rodgers is notorious for not trusting receivers for a very long time, which negates the HoF QB advantage MVS has over Miller. Just now, JustAnotherFan said: Lol. God you are such a diva. Now you're calling me a diva. Lies after lies after lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Yes, but Rodgers is notorious for not trusting receivers for a very long time, which negates the HoF QB advantage MVS has over Miller. Nothing negates a hall a fame advantage. Lmao. Just stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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