NBA Offseason Thread: Durant will remain in Brooklyn

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

Kyrie's career earnings are around $170M I believe.  He's not bleeding for cash in the slightest.  Again, it's not about how much he'd make by opting out.  It's about the Lakers retaining his Bird Rights.  If they have his bird rights, he can make $70M more than he can as a FA.

And you're looking at this way to transactionally.  Sometimes you have step back and look at the bigger picture.  Let's say hypothetically they use that TPE to acquire someone like Kristaps Porzingis or Gordon Hayward and getting back some draft picks for taking on those salaries.  Next offseason (assuming no Durant deal is stuck), we could be looking at a Lillard trade request with the Nets armed with a MASSIVE expiring contract and a boatload of picks.  That's going to be pretty appealing to Portland if Dame wants out.

Obviously he's not poor but it'd be unprecedented for him to sit out again this season and forefite $36M after he chose to opt in. Do you think that he'd want to let his buddy KD down by signaling that he's so interested in playing elsewhere with LeBron he's willing to just sit out instead of playing in Brooklyn? If Dame becomes available you honestly think the best offer they're going to get is KP/Hayward's expiring deal and picks? Why wouldn't Washington just offer the exact same package to pair him with Beal?

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

Lowe said Suns haven't even offered 4 1sts yet. 

KD's valuable but he's not Rudy Gobert valuable. 

[CWood21]

11 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

The 76ers were trying to clear house that offseason when Morey took over and also traded away Al Horford. Richardson was due for an extension and was literally the main piece that the team got back when they traded Jimmy Butler to Miami. Curry has also improved by leaps and bounds over the past couple of seasons, he was a bench player in Dallas and has been a full time starter for the 76ers/Nets and one of the best shooters in the league on a very cheap, expiring contract.

He's a starter because he's been a 43% shooter from beyond the arc the last 2 years.  Not because he's some super talented player.  Shooters will always have a place on the court.  He's not a great defender, and offensively he doesn't offer much besides his shooting.  He's a player every team loves to have, but he's not overly valuable.  He's not too dissimilar to JJ Redick in terms of value.

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

He's a starter because he's been a 43% shooter from beyond the arc the last 2 years.  Not because he's some super talented player.  Shooters will always have a place on the court.  He's not a great defender, and offensively he doesn't offer much besides his shooting.  He's a player every team loves to have, but he's not overly valuable.  He's not too dissimilar to JJ Redick in terms of value.

JJ got a 1 yr/$23M deal from Philly at the same stage that Curry is currently at.

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Obviously he's not poor but it'd be unprecedented for him to sit out again this season and forefite $36M after he chose to opt in. Do you think that he'd want to let his buddy KD down by signaling that he's so interested in playing elsewhere with LeBron he's willing to just sit out instead of playing in Brooklyn? If Dame becomes available you honestly think the best offer they're going to get is KP/Hayward's expiring deal and picks? Why wouldn't Washington just offer the exact same package to pair him with Beal?

He chose to sit out because he didn't want to get vaccinated.  Are you willing to gamble that he's not willing to sit out because he wants to go to Los Angeles?  Because I'm not sure I would be, especially if I were an owner paying the luxury tax on him.  And we have no idea where Kyrie and Durant stand with each other.  If playing with each other was still a HUGE priority, they'd be trying to make things work in Brooklyn.  Instead, Durant asked for a trade, and Irving has all but publicly asked for a trade.

And the hypothetical TPE for Hayward/Porky trade would happen midseason or before the season.  Think the Baron Davis' trade.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

JJ got a 1 yr/$23M deal from Philly at the same stage that Curry is currently at.

I'm talking about trade values.  And JJ was massively overpaid in that deal.  Look at his next deal after that, I believe it was a 1 year, $12M deal.

[NYRaider]

Just now, CWood21 said:

He chose to sit out because he didn't want to get vaccinated.  Are you willing to gamble that he's not willing to sit out because he wants to go to Los Angeles?  Because I'm not sure I would be, especially if I were an owner paying the luxury tax on him.  And we have no idea where Kyrie and Durant stand with each other.  If playing with each other was still a HUGE priority, they'd be trying to make things work in Brooklyn.  Instead, Durant asked for a trade, and Irving has all but publicly asked for a trade.

And the hypothetical TPE for Hayward/Porky trade would happen midseason or before the season.  Think the Baron Davis' trade.

No I'm willing to gamble that if the Nets keep him and Durant that he's going to play. Which doesn't really put a ton of pressure on the Nets to trade him, especially before they figure out what's going to happen with Durant. You realize the entire reason that KD is frustrated and asked for a trade to begin with is because the Nets aren't willing to extend Kyrie, right? There have been reports that they'd still like to play together, just not in Brooklyn. 

Hayward/KP both have 2 years left on their deal, why would Washington or Charlotte panic and move them halfway through year one and give up lottery picks to do it? And that's all just hypothetical. Lillard was courtside at the Blazers game tonight with Chauncey and Nurk (who they just extended). And the team has shown that they're clearly trying to be competitive with the moves they've made this offseason. Is KD going to be happy if they go to him and say, "look I know we're trading our best player and essentially taking ourselves out of contention in one of your last seasons. But we're getting a TPE that we might potentially be able to trade for Porzingis/Hayward and then we're praying that Lillard asks out so that we can trade that player and picks for Dame."

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I'm talking about trade values.  And JJ was massively overpaid in that deal.  Look at his next deal after that, I believe it was a 1 year, $12M deal.

We've seen DeAnthony Melton and Royce O'Neale net first round picks in trades this offseason. 

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

We've seen DeAnthony Melton and Royce O'Neale net first round picks in trades this offseason. 

And the Grizz took back nearly $7M in dead salary because Danny Green likely won't play this year with his torn ACL.  And the Royce O'Neale trade has the worst pick of the Rockets, Nets, and Sixers' picks going to Utah.  That's probably Philadelphia, and that's probably a pick in that 25-30 range.  In a very unlikely scenario, that's a 18-24 pick.  That's pretty much what I'd argue that Curry's peak value is.

[NYRaider]

Just now, CWood21 said:

And the Grizz took back nearly $7M in dead salary because Danny Green likely won't play this year with his torn ACL.  And the Royce O'Neale trade has the worst pick of the Rockets, Nets, and Sixers' picks going to Utah.  That's probably Philadelphia, and that's probably a pick in that 25-30 range.  In a very unlikely scenario, that's a 18-24 pick.  That's pretty much what I'd argue that Curry's peak value is.

So as a team that's potentially rebuilding would you rather have the 18th-25th pick in 2023 or package that asset with Irving for a pick in 2027 or 2029? Their GM probably won't even still be there to make that pick in 5-7 years.

[CWood21]

5 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

No I'm willing to gamble that if the Nets keep him and Durant that he's going to play. Which doesn't really put a ton of pressure on the Nets to trade him, especially before they figure out what's going to happen with Durant. You realize the entire reason that KD is frustrated and asked for a trade to begin with is because the Nets aren't willing to extend Kyrie, right? There have been reports that they'd still like to play together, just not in Brooklyn. 

And that's the gamble that the Nets probably should make.  You and I aren't disagreeing on that.  If I were the Nets, I'd try and run it back and see if I can change their minds.

And Durant isn't just asking for a trade simply because the Nets are balking at maxing out Kyrie Irving.  You're foolish if you think that's the only reason.

7 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Hayward/KP both have 2 years left on their deal, why would Washington or Charlotte panic and move them halfway through year one and give up lottery picks to do it? And that's all just hypothetical. Lillard was courtside at the Blazers game tonight with Chauncey and Nurk (who they just extended). And the team has shown that they're clearly trying to be competitive with the moves they've made this offseason. Is KD going to be happy if they go to him and say, "look I know we're trading our best player and essentially taking ourselves out of contention in one of your last seasons. But we're getting a TPE that we might potentially be able to trade for Porzingis/Hayward and then we're praying that Lillard asks out so that we can trade that player and picks for Dame."

Possible.  We just got a report that said that Damian Lillard couldn't get even get ahold of the owner.  I guarantee you that Durant and Irving can get ahold of Joe Tsai.  I guarantee you that LeBron James and Anthony Davis can get ahold of Jeanie Buss.  I guarantee you that Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Draymond Green can get ahold of Joe Lacob.  If there indeed is truth to that report, that's not a good sign of things coming in Portland which has been festering for a few years now.

[NYRaider]

Also refusing to extend Kyrie so you can get a TPE that you then try to flip for a bad expiring deal/picks to then flip that player/picks for Damian Lillard who's 2 years older and costs more seems like a very elaborate plan.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

So as a team that's potentially rebuilding would you rather have the 18th-25th pick in 2023 or package that asset with Irving for a pick in 2027 or 2029? Their GM probably won't even still be there to make that pick in 5-7 years.

That's a best case scenario in terms of a Curry trade, but I'll bite.  What are the odds that you get a rotational player, let alone a star player with that pick?

[NYRaider]

Just now, CWood21 said:

And Durant isn't just asking for a trade simply because the Nets are balking at maxing out Kyrie Irving.  You're foolish if you think that's the only reason.

Possible.  We just got a report that said that Damian Lillard couldn't get even get ahold of the owner.  I guarantee you that Durant and Irving can get ahold of Joe Tsai.  I guarantee you that LeBron James and Anthony Davis can get ahold of Jeanie Buss.  I guarantee you that Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, and Draymond Green can get ahold of Joe Lacob.  If there indeed is truth to that report, that's not a good sign of things coming in Portland which has been festering for a few years now.

What other reason is there? I think it's pretty clear that Durant wants to compete for a championship as his career winds down. He recognizes that the only clear path to doing that is with Kyrie in Brooklyn. If the Lakers told LeBron we're not going to extend Anthony Davis and will likely just let him walk or trade him for an expiring contract, do you think he'd be thrilled to be on the team? 

You also realize that the Blazers owner is currently negotiating a deal to sell the team to Phil Knight, right?

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

That's a best case scenario in terms of a Curry trade, but I'll bite.  What are the odds that you get a rotational player, let alone a star player with that pick?

I'd say probably just as good as the odds that you draft one in 5-7 years unless your scouts have been at middle school camps and have identified a can't miss prospect. The kicker is that the 2023 pick gives the GM an additional asset to rebuild now after they just lost two superstar players vs that same GM picking up an asset for whoever's running the team in half a decade.