Devin White market

[indifference]

its not looking good for him next year. Honestly surprising that he is not playing his best ball in a contract year. Guy has been a non factor and outplayed by Lavonte David. i think his groin has affected him but before that injury he was hardly a factor. Its time to admit we have to move on.

By the way Jags Josh Allen has 9 sacks on the year. The man I pounded the table for during the draft and utterly disappointed we passed on him.

Reality is that

2024 Bucs will be needing an EDGE, and possibly two ILB 

 

[BucsDraftGeek47]

yea, looks like we are gona lose Devin for free

I was also on the Allen train at the time, got blind sided by taking Devin

we need a good Edge so bad

[RedandPewterReturns]

On 11/2/2023 at 10:40 AM, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

yea, looks like we are gona lose Devin for free

I was also on the Allen train at the time, got blind sided by taking Devin

we need a good Edge so bad

After the first 6-7 weeks - I don't think anyone wanted to surrender anything for him. 

It blows my mind that we took him that high - all athleticism, no football IQ. 

I also was on the Josh Allen train at that time (edge). Never believed in taking an ILB that high unless they were the real deal. In my last mock - I had the bucs taking , well should be taking Germaine Pratt bc he was just as good of an athlete that everyone gushed over on Devin White. I will today brag bc it was taking an athletic LB on day 2/3 of the draft strategy. 

Whats sad is that everyone in Tampa will say - keep signing an aging Lavonte David to a 2-3 year deal and let the young athletic LB go. White is just a bad football player. And somehow thinks he's worth 20MM a year? lol 

[indifference]

11 hours ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

After the first 6-7 weeks - I don't think anyone wanted to surrender anything for him. 

It blows my mind that we took him that high - all athleticism, no football IQ. 

I also was on the Josh Allen train at that time (edge). Never believed in taking an ILB that high unless they were the real deal. In my last mock - I had the bucs taking , well should be taking Germaine Pratt bc he was just as good of an athlete that everyone gushed over on Devin White. I will today brag bc it was taking an athletic LB on day 2/3 of the draft strategy. 

Whats sad is that everyone in Tampa will say - keep signing an aging Lavonte David to a 2-3 year deal and let the young athletic LB go. White is just a bad football player. And somehow thinks he's worth 20MM a year? lol 

i remember that as well. And I agreed with you taking a linebacker later.

 

isn’t it ironic the guy Bowles pounded the table for and passed on Josh Allen is going to lead to his demise? Imagine if the Bucs had Josh Allen instead of this dude. Our pass rush is THE biggest single need on defense and it could’ve been avoided. Bucs thought short term when they drafted Devin White and now they are paying for it. I have no sympathy for dumb decision making.

 

[RedandPewterReturns]

16 hours ago, indifference said:

i remember that as well. And I agreed with you taking a linebacker later.

 

isn’t it ironic the guy Bowles pounded the table for and passed on Josh Allen is going to lead to his demise? Imagine if the Bucs had Josh Allen instead of this dude. Our pass rush is THE biggest single need on defense and it could’ve been avoided. Bucs thought short term when they drafted Devin White and now they are paying for it. I have no sympathy for dumb decision making.

 

I'm really not in the ball park just yet on removing Jason Licht from GM but i'm close. The 2021 draft is almost a complete flop once Tryon gets waxed. 

Too many first round misses. Lacks the ability to scout 50% of the positions. He's done well finding WR's and OL. He's 50/50 on DL/Edge players, and he's done well finding off ball LB's (minus the huge miss on Devin White). Safety - I will say he's been good. Whitehead and Winfield were studs. Evans at the time was a beast but injuries derailed him. 

Corner and TE - I'm indifferent on. Dean and Davis were nice finds but he passed on some good corners for absolute garbage. Taking vernon hargreaves after showing no speed and athleticism in his workouts along with an absolutely terrible showing his Jr year was absolutely pathetic scouting and judgement. The guy was "good" his sophmore year, then got exposed from the bowl game all the way through his Jr year and everyone threw at him bc he was slow. Yet - we took him 11th overall? lol 

[BucsDraftGeek47]

23 hours ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

I'm really not in the ball park just yet on removing Jason Licht from GM but i'm close. The 2021 draft is almost a complete flop once Tryon gets waxed. 

Too many first round misses. Lacks the ability to scout 50% of the positions. He's done well finding WR's and OL. He's 50/50 on DL/Edge players, and he's done well finding off ball LB's (minus the huge miss on Devin White). Safety - I will say he's been good. Whitehead and Winfield were studs. Evans at the time was a beast but injuries derailed him. 

Corner and TE - I'm indifferent on. Dean and Davis were nice finds but he passed on some good corners for absolute garbage. Taking vernon hargreaves after showing no speed and athleticism in his workouts along with an absolutely terrible showing his Jr year was absolutely pathetic scouting and judgement. The guy was "good" his sophmore year, then got exposed from the bowl game all the way through his Jr year and everyone threw at him bc he was slow. Yet - we took him 11th overall? lol 

I think Licht is fine and should stay

sure he misses on some 1sts but what GM doesnt

at least Licht is consistent at finding gems in the mid rounds, thats arguably more important imo

[indifference]

Licht is fine. He’s one of the few smart GMs who delegates and lets the coaches pick their guys to fit their system. Lovie thought VG3 was a fit for his zone based scheme. At the time was a fair assumption to make. Licht is def in on those small school OL prospects. His philosophy has not changed through 3 different HC. Marpet, Cappa, and Mauch - lovie, arians and bowles
 

So because of Licht delegating draft decisions it keeps him off the hook for bad picks. He IS responsible though for who we hire. He is done if he doesnt get the right HC in here. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by indifference

[RedandPewterReturns]

On 11/9/2023 at 10:56 AM, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

I think Licht is fine and should stay

sure he misses on some 1sts but what GM doesnt

at least Licht is consistent at finding gems in the mid rounds, thats arguably more important imo

Some firsts? 

2014: Mike Evans - HOF WR 5/5; rest of the draft busted

2015: Jamies Winston - BUST 0/5; rest of the draft was very good. 

2016: Vernon Hargreaves: BUST 0/5; entire draft busted

2017: OJ Howard: BUST 0/5; found Godwin in the 3rd, 

2018: Vita Vea: Hit. 4/5: Rest of draft was also good - Davis, R. Jones, Whitehead, Cappa. 

2019: Devin White: BUST 1/5: Rest of Draft: Dean, Edwards, Murphy Bunting, Scotty Miller played key roles

2020: Tristan Wirfs: STUD 5/5 (top 3 Tackle): Winfield in round 2 another stud. Rest of draft - MEH

2021: Joey Tryon : Not performing up to par through 3 years 1/5: Rest of Draft: BUSTS 

2022: No First Rounders : Rest of draft: TBD - Goedeke looks to have found a home at RT; Hall is developing ok. Otton has taken step back; White is a 3rd down RB

2023: Cancy : TBD - Way too early to judge anyone from this class

So in 9 first round selections, he's drafted what looks to be 5 busts with Tryon, 3 hits. Cancy is TBD. He has completely whiffed on two entire drafts in 2016 and 2021. Cannot scout QB's properly. RB, Edge rushers, TE have been all been challenging for him as well. DB: 50/50. He's whiffed on some and found some average to above average corners. Whitehead and Winfield are two big hits for him and he let Whitehead walk when he was cheap to sign a crappy third WR in Russell Gage lol. 

So he didn't miss on SOME first rounders, he's missed on over 50%  BADLY! He flopped two entire drafts in 2016 and 2021 which is not good. 

I don't think he's a stud by any means as a GM. And lets be real - if it wasn't for signing Brady, he would've been gone in 2020-2021. 

Other decisions he's made that are eye rolling: 

- R. Jones was always in the dog house despite being a terror running the ball in 2019 and 2020. All bc he was inconsistent as a receiver? While Lenny was always out of shape, fat, and soft. then handed Lenny a deal that gave him 14MM guranteed 

- Letting Cappa and Whitehead walk and spending stupid money on Davis and Russell Gage. Still trying to replace Cappa; while we've easily found Receivers in the draft and UDFA. 

- Does not deserve the credit for landing several FA's during the Brady era - as you can see whats going on in NE: Its the Brady effect. 

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by RedandPewterReturns

[BucsDraftGeek47]

On 11/10/2023 at 12:29 PM, RedandPewterReturns said:

Some firsts? 

2014: Mike Evans - HOF WR 5/5; rest of the draft busted

2015: Jamies Winston - BUST 0/5; rest of the draft was very good. 

2016: Vernon Hargreaves: BUST 0/5; entire draft busted

2017: OJ Howard: BUST 0/5; found Godwin in the 3rd, 

2018: Vita Vea: Hit. 4/5: Rest of draft was also good - Davis, R. Jones, Whitehead, Cappa. 

2019: Devin White: BUST 1/5: Rest of Draft: Dean, Edwards, Murphy Bunting, Scotty Miller played key roles

2020: Tristan Wirfs: STUD 5/5 (top 3 Tackle): Winfield in round 2 another stud. Rest of draft - MEH

2021: Joey Tryon : Not performing up to par through 3 years 1/5: Rest of Draft: BUSTS 

2022: No First Rounders : Rest of draft: TBD - Goedeke looks to have found a home at RT; Hall is developing ok. Otton has taken step back; White is a 3rd down RB

2023: Cancy : TBD - Way too early to judge anyone from this class

So in 9 first round selections, he's drafted what looks to be 5 busts with Tryon, 3 hits. Cancy is TBD. He has completely whiffed on two entire drafts in 2016 and 2021. Cannot scout QB's properly. RB, Edge rushers, TE have been all been challenging for him as well. DB: 50/50. He's whiffed on some and found some average to above average corners. Whitehead and Winfield are two big hits for him and he let Whitehead walk when he was cheap to sign a crappy third WR in Russell Gage lol. 

So he didn't miss on SOME first rounders, he's missed on over 50%  BADLY! He flopped two entire drafts in 2016 and 2021 which is not good. 

I don't think he's a stud by any means as a GM. And lets be real - if it wasn't for signing Brady, he would've been gone in 2020-2021. 

Other decisions he's made that are eye rolling: 

- R. Jones was always in the dog house despite being a terror running the ball in 2019 and 2020. All bc he was inconsistent as a receiver? While Lenny was always out of shape, fat, and soft. then handed Lenny a deal that gave him 14MM guranteed 

- Letting Cappa and Whitehead walk and spending stupid money on Davis and Russell Gage. Still trying to replace Cappa; while we've easily found Receivers in the draft and UDFA. 

- Does not deserve the credit for landing several FA's during the Brady era - as you can see whats going on in NE: Its the Brady effect. 

 

yea i get it , but when you are a GM that survives multiple HCs , there's a reason

I'm sure the HCs all had a lot of input on those 1st rounders

I'm not trying to make excuses, All I'm saying , is that with Licht at GM, there hasnt been a draft where i dont see the overall direction they are trying to go

and honestly, before him I remember plenty of drafts where I'm like "WTF are we doing here"

you can pick any GM out of a Hat, and over a 10 year sample size, they are all going to look suspect

I think Licht's ability to find gems in later rounds makes up for missing on some early picks

[RedandPewterReturns]

17 minutes ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

yea i get it , but when you are a GM that survives multiple HCs , there's a reason

I'm sure the HCs all had a lot of input on those 1st rounders

I'm not trying to make excuses, All I'm saying , is that with Licht at GM, there hasnt been a draft where i dont see the overall direction they are trying to go

and honestly, before him I remember plenty of drafts where I'm like "WTF are we doing here"

you can pick any GM out of a Hat, and over a 10 year sample size, they are all going to look suspect

I think Licht's ability to find gems in later rounds makes up for missing on some early picks

Normally - GM's don't survive this many coaching changes either. Lovie - I get it, Licht was hired AFTER him. Koetter, BA, Bowles, and probably someone new. Very odd you get this many opportunities. 

 

[BucsDraftGeek47]

23 hours ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

Normally - GM's don't survive this many coaching changes either. Lovie - I get it, Licht was hired AFTER him. Koetter, BA, Bowles, and probably someone new. Very odd you get this many opportunities. 

 

agreed

my take on it is that Licht works really closely with the HCs to get a guy they like round 1 and then takes a more hands on approach to finding talent himself or within his scouting team for the later guys, and thats why hes stuck around awhile

could be way off though lol

[RedandPewterReturns]

On 11/14/2023 at 1:53 PM, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

agreed

my take on it is that Licht works really closely with the HCs to get a guy they like round 1 and then takes a more hands on approach to finding talent himself or within his scouting team for the later guys, and thats why hes stuck around awhile

could be way off though lol

Its valid but this team has been nothing without Tom Brady and I honestly wonder what Licht factors into when evaluating QBs. 

He said QB's need to turn the ball over less in todays game and that usually TO prone QB's don't usually change - yet he still took Jameis Winston.....and kept him for 5 years. 

He drafted Kyle Trask who wasn't really talented - in round 2. Turns out everyone else was right he;s not a starting caliber QB. 

He was able to build a good enough roster to get the best QB of all time that still had juice in him at 42-43 years old. If Licht never signed Brady - he would've been out after 2020 in my opinion. 

[BucsDraftGeek47]

On 12/10/2023 at 11:25 AM, RedandPewterReturns said:

Its valid but this team has been nothing without Tom Brady and I honestly wonder what Licht factors into when evaluating QBs. 

He said QB's need to turn the ball over less in todays game and that usually TO prone QB's don't usually change - yet he still took Jameis Winston.....and kept him for 5 years. 

He drafted Kyle Trask who wasn't really talented - in round 2. Turns out everyone else was right he;s not a starting caliber QB. 

He was able to build a good enough roster to get the best QB of all time that still had juice in him at 42-43 years old. If Licht never signed Brady - he would've been out after 2020 in my opinion. 

yeahhh more than likely

but i appreciate Licht hitting on mid-late rounders 

ive enjoyed most of his drafting over the years (definitely not all)

 

hoping for a full clean house this offseason though

need new blood and need new offensive thinking imo

[RedandPewterReturns]

On 12/12/2023 at 10:27 AM, BucsDraftGeek47 said:

yeahhh more than likely

but i appreciate Licht hitting on mid-late rounders 

ive enjoyed most of his drafting over the years (definitely not all)

 

hoping for a full clean house this offseason though

need new blood and need new offensive thinking imo

I agree. I get that Jason Licht and ownerships hands were tied when BA retired and felt Bowles was a premier HC candidate to succeed him. 

I dont know if I can go through another Jason Licht Head Coaching hire. Koetter and BA weren't ideal choices for todays game. BA benefited from Tom Brady - his scheme was too outdated throwing verticals all day every day. 

Bowles is too boring. But Licht agreed to BA's request of Todd Bowles being the future coach in waiting. Especially when his philosophy is the same one that got him fired in New York. It wasnt successful nor exciting there. Why would that change? 

I'm open to keeping Licht as a President of Football operations and handing over the GM role to someone new. I think the Glazers love Licht. So do the players and coaches as he seems like he's easy to work with. But I do question his philosophy or metrics in evaluating certain positions. QB for one. But he still can't seem to find good backs in mid rounds like other teams do. 

[BucsDraftGeek47]

I honestly think we need to move Devin to Edge
hes got the juice and closing speed + he was always a good blitzer and cant cover for ****

absolutely no reason not to try it with Tryon seeming like he'll never be much better than he currently is and Barret being on his last legs

Eff it, Yaya and Devin as the Edges, run it