Hunter2_1 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Fautanu is a natural LT (98% of snaps at LT for Wash) but he doesn’t have the prototypical length for NFL LT. It’s annoying, I hate all this. But he probably does get moved to LG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 4 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said: Fautanu is a natural LT (98% of snaps at LT for Wash) but he doesn’t have the prototypical length for NFL LT. It’s annoying, I hate all this. But he probably does get moved to LG Huh? 34.5 inch arms puts him in some pretty decent company left tackle wise. Longer arms than Alt, Olu, Fuaga, Guyton. Longer than Trent, Bahktiari, Duane Brown, DJ Humphries, Taylor Decker, Wirfs, Bolles, Armstead, Tunsil, Slater, Sewell, and Matthews. If he fails in the NFL, doesn’t seem likely it’ll be because of his arm length. Edited March 27 by Soko 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prob2236 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 I just hate Tom's argument all together. Even if they find a QB that they believe is truly elite, he argues to trade the pick because we're not ready to play a young QB. It's to important of a position. How many cracks at a top notch prospect QB do you think you get? On top of that, he and a lot of other casters advocating for trading the pick still believe the Pat's should take a QB in the first two rounds. So there not saying stay away from QB all together and just working on building the roster. Just maybe take a QB at 34 instead. Drake Maye and Ladd McConkey is a far more interesting draft haul then, Mims, McConkey and Rattler would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 10 minutes ago, prob2236 said: I just hate Tom's argument all together. Even if they find a QB that they believe is truly elite, he argues to trade the pick because we're not ready to play a young QB. It's to important of a position. How many cracks at a top notch prospect QB do you think you get? Yeah, the “this team isn’t ready to have a QB” argument is an empty one, IMO. The offense bottomed out, obviously, in 2023. It was bad in 2022. But it’s not like it was all that much better in 2021 from a talent perspective, and the offense was solid (though unspectacular). If you think your QB is there, you take him. 10 minutes ago, prob2236 said: On top of that, he and a lot of other casters advocating for trading the pick still believe the Pat's should take a QB in the first two rounds. So there not saying stay away from QB all together and just working on building the roster. Just maybe take a QB at 34 instead. Drake Maye and Ladd McConkey is a far more interesting draft haul then, Mims, McConkey and Rattler would be. Is Maye and McConkey better than Penix/Nix, Mitchell, and Fautanu, though? I think that’s pretty debatable. But it does (and should) totally hinge on how they feel about the QB. If you like Maye or Daniels, you don’t trade out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prob2236 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 16 minutes ago, Soko said: Yeah, the “this team isn’t ready to have a QB” argument is an empty one, IMO. The offense bottomed out, obviously, in 2023. It was bad in 2022. But it’s not like it was all that much better in 2021 from a talent perspective, and the offense was solid (though unspectacular). If you think your QB is there, you take him. Is Maye and McConkey better than Penix/Nix, Mitchell, and Fautanu, though? I think that’s pretty debatable. But it does (and should) totally hinge on how they feel about the QB. If you like Maye or Daniels, you don’t trade out. Once you trade down though, especially as far as #11 you lose a lot of ability to control your own destiny. There are plenty of teams looking for QB in this draft. If the Broncos see Williams, Maye, Daniels and McCarthy top 6 they could certainly make a move to jump up and grab Penix. And if we hated the idea of the Pats having to take the left over QB of Daniels/Maye are we really feeling better if they have to pick theft over of Penix/Nix? Same thing with Mitchell at #23. I love Mitchell, think he will be a beast. Are you sure you he'll be there at #23? I know we'll be able to draft Maye or Daniels at #3. I know that having #11 and #23 offers two shots in the first round instead of one. I have no idea what the board will look like at #11 and certainly have no idea what it will look like at #23. With those picks your basically saying that " I'll have a shot at some combination of these 5 players at #11 and these 6 or 7 players at #23. And getting any combination of player from those two groups is a better scenario then what Drake Maye offers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 4 hours ago, Soko said: Huh? 34.5 inch arms puts him in some pretty decent company left tackle wise. Longer arms than Alt, Olu, Fuaga, Guyton. Longer than Trent, Bahktiari, Duane Brown, DJ Humphries, Taylor Decker, Wirfs, Bolles, Armstead, Tunsil, Slater, Sewell, and Matthews. If he fails in the NFL, doesn’t seem likely it’ll be because of his arm length. That’s alright then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, prob2236 said: I just hate Tom's argument all together. Even if they find a QB that they believe is truly elite, he argues to trade the pick because we're not ready to play a young QB. It's to important of a position. How many cracks at a top notch prospect QB do you think you get? On top of that, he and a lot of other casters advocating for trading the pick still believe the Pat's should take a QB in the first two rounds. So there not saying stay away from QB all together and just working on building the roster. Just maybe take a QB at 34 instead. Drake Maye and Ladd McConkey is a far more interesting draft haul then, Mims, McConkey and Rattler would be. I do think we will make a pick at 3, but the trade down scenario, for me, is whether or not they’re desperate for a particular one of the two, and if he’s gone - would they then pull the trigger on a trade. Or just settle for the other one because he’s also a QB. Not sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, prob2236 said: Once you trade down though, especially as far as #11 you lose a lot of ability to control your own destiny. There are plenty of teams looking for QB in this draft. If the Broncos see Williams, Maye, Daniels and McCarthy top 6 they could certainly make a move to jump up and grab Penix. And if we hated the idea of the Pats having to take the left over QB of Daniels/Maye are we really feeling better if they have to pick theft over of Penix/Nix? Same thing with Mitchell at #23. I love Mitchell, think he will be a beast. Are you sure you he'll be there at #23? I know we'll be able to draft Maye or Daniels at #3. I know that having #11 and #23 offers two shots in the first round instead of one. I have no idea what the board will look like at #11 and certainly have no idea what it will look like at #23. With those picks your basically saying that " I'll have a shot at some combination of these 5 players at #11 and these 6 or 7 players at #23. And getting any combination of player from those two groups is a better scenario then what Drake Maye offers. That’s just the nature of the draft, though. If you’re trading down from three it’s because you aren’t sold on one of Daniels or Maye, and that you think there’ll be value with two picks (11 and 23). No, it might not be Mitchell specifically, but it’s as you said, there’d be a handful of guys in either range that you’re happy about getting. I don’t really view it as “being left with who’s left” as much as “is the guy available at your pick someone you are going to put faith in at QB?” Even if you were picking at two, that still applies. I think New England has at least given good lip service on not forcing it at QB. I see value in taking either QB at three. I also see value in having three shots in the top 34 to re-tool the offense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prob2236 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 14 minutes ago, Soko said: That’s just the nature of the draft, though. If you’re trading down from three it’s because you aren’t sold on one of Daniels or Maye, and that you think there’ll be value with two picks (11 and 23). No, it might not be Mitchell specifically, but it’s as you said, there’d be a handful of guys in either range that you’re happy about getting. I don’t really view it as “being left with who’s left” as much as “is the guy available at your pick someone you are going to put faith in at QB?” Even if you were picking at two, that still applies. I think New England has at least given good lip service on not forcing it at QB. I see value in taking either QB at three. I also see value in having three shots in the top 34 to re-tool the offense. I understand, what I'm pushing back on is the idea that trade or keep, the Pat's need a QB in the early rounds of this draft and that it's somehow preferable to make that pick with 11 and 23 rather than do it with #11. I've heard a lot of people who hate that at #3 the Pat's could basically have to take whatever QB falls to them of the big 3. But that's not what's going to happen if the slide to #11? No the difference is that instead of having to settle for Maye you may need to settle for Nix. The opinion isn't, take a franchise QB or trade down and wait another year. Most who want to trade down still expect the Pat's to draft the QB of the future in this draft. I'm saying that drafting the left over QB at #11 and whatever falls to us at #23 isn't better than just drafting the guy at #3. If they trade down then they should spend their picks on improving the roster for when they finally find the guy they want. Don't trade down and then try to address the same position with a less capable guy just because someone threw 23 on top of it. There are plenty of people out there that hate Drake Maye. I haven't heard any that think passing on Maye for Nix is a smarter decision. If they plan on taking a qb with a 1st round pick no matter what then just identify your guy and draft him at #3. Don't take who the board leaves you and then hope that #23 makes it all worth while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, prob2236 said: I understand, what I'm pushing back on is the idea that trade or keep, the Pat's need a QB in the early rounds of this draft and that it's somehow preferable to make that pick with 11 and 23 rather than do it with #11. I've heard a lot of people who hate that at #3 the Pat's could basically have to take whatever QB falls to them of the big 3. But that's not what's going to happen if the slide to #11? No the difference is that instead of having to settle for Maye you may need to settle for Nix. The opinion isn't, take a franchise QB or trade down and wait another year. Most who want to trade down still expect the Pat's to draft the QB of the future in this draft. I'm saying that drafting the left over QB at #11 and whatever falls to us at #23 isn't better than just drafting the guy at #3. If they trade down then they should spend their picks on improving the roster for when they finally find the guy they want. Don't trade down and then try to address the same position with a less capable guy just because someone threw 23 on top of it. There are plenty of people out there that hate Drake Maye. I haven't heard any that think passing on Maye for Nix is a smarter decision. If they plan on taking a qb with a 1st round pick no matter what then just identify your guy and draft him at #3. Don't take who the board leaves you and then hope that #23 makes it all worth while. I can’t speak to what other people say or feel. NE may or may not be happy with Daniels or Maye at 3. Maybe they like both, maybe only one, maybe neither. But they’re not pigeonholed to take a QB at 3 (or 11 in a trade). Plenty of fans think that, but they’re not. There’s quite literally nothing forcing them to do so. If they don’t think Maye is going to be that guy (or they’re at least not super confident in it), are they supposed to take him at 3 just because he’s largely viewed as the third best prospect? Of course not. What if they love Daniels, are lukewarm on Maye, and love Penix? You don’t reach on Penix at 3. You don’t take Maye just cus’. You maximize the value there. Yes, of course there’s risk if you miss out on one (or multiple) QB you really like, but you have to weigh that risk and potentially think about maneuvering again. The Seahawks didn’t take Russ in the first round. Maybe they weren’t dead set sure on him being the FQB, but they had a good idea that he wasn’t going to be taken in R1. These QBs have different strengths/weaknesses and different outlooks. We won’t all view it the same, neither will the teams. Taking Maye third doesn’t necessarily mean they’re “settling on who’s left”, and that also applies if they take Penix or Nix in R2 or Rattler or Pratt later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prob2236 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 13 minutes ago, Soko said: I can’t speak to what other people say or feel. NE may or may not be happy with Daniels or Maye at 3. Maybe they like both, maybe only one, maybe neither. But they’re not pigeonholed to take a QB at 3 (or 11 in a trade). Plenty of fans think that, but they’re not. There’s quite literally nothing forcing them to do so. If they don’t think Maye is going to be that guy (or they’re at least not super confident in it), are they supposed to take him at 3 just because he’s largely viewed as the third best prospect? Of course not. What if they love Daniels, are lukewarm on Maye, and love Penix? You don’t reach on Penix at 3. You don’t take Maye just cus’. You maximize the value there. Yes, of course there’s risk if you miss out on one (or multiple) QB you really like, but you have to weigh that risk and potentially think about maneuvering again. The Seahawks didn’t take Russ in the first round. Maybe they weren’t dead set sure on him being the FQB, but they had a good idea that he wasn’t going to be taken in R1. These QBs have different strengths/weaknesses and different outlooks. We won’t all view it the same, neither will the teams. Taking Maye third doesn’t necessarily mean they’re “settling on who’s left”, and that also applies if they take Penix or Nix in R2 or Rattler or Pratt later. I'm not so sure... Kraft made it plenty clear that he wants a young franchise QB high in this draft. If Elliot Wolfe doesn't take one, he better pray that there wasn't one there be taken. Kraft may ultimately allow these guys the room to make the decision on which way to go, but he's made it known what he's hoping for. Its your pick Elliot and your funeral if the young franchise QB I wanted to goes to Minnesota with my pick. If you don't think that Robert and Jonathan Kraft arent at the very least making it know how how they feel then you're probably crazy. With the team in shambles as it is, Wolfe and Mayo will absolutely be judged on who they picked vs who who they could have picked because they had New England's highest draft pick in 30 years. Pass on Maye and get Nix later, fine Elliot whatever you think. But Nix better not suck while Maybe becomes the next Burrow in Minnesota. There's plenty of pressure on them to make the right decisions in this draft, especially at QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 57 minutes ago, prob2236 said: I'm not so sure... Kraft made it plenty clear that he wants a young franchise QB high in this draft. If Elliot Wolfe doesn't take one, he better pray that there wasn't one there be taken. Kraft may ultimately allow these guys the room to make the decision on which way to go, but he's made it known what he's hoping for. Its your pick Elliot and your funeral if the young franchise QB I wanted to goes to Minnesota with my pick. If you don't think that Robert and Jonathan Kraft arent at the very least making it know how how they feel then you're probably crazy. With the team in shambles as it is, Wolfe and Mayo will absolutely be judged on who they picked vs who who they could have picked because they had New England's highest draft pick in 30 years. Pass on Maye and get Nix later, fine Elliot whatever you think. But Nix better not suck while Maybe becomes the next Burrow in Minnesota. There's plenty of pressure on them to make the right decisions in this draft, especially at QB. I see what you're saying. If trading for more picks in the first, you'd rather not waste one of the newly gained ones on a QB when you could have picked a better QB at 3. I'm sort of with you in that if we do trade, I'd rather add two pieces to the roster (OT and WR for example). But again, I do think they just pick Daniels or Maye at 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prob2236 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said: I see what you're saying. If trading for more picks in the first, you'd rather not waste one of the newly gained ones on a QB when you could have picked a better QB at 3. I'm sort of with you in that if we do trade, I'd rather add two pieces to the roster (OT and WR for example). But again, I do think they just pick Daniels or Maye at 3 I'm hoping they do. I mean ultimately what it comes down to is hitting on the picks they make. If they hit on Maye and find some solid additions in later rounds then no one will be pissed. Same thing goes for if they trade out. Blow the picks and you'll be open for scrutiny for the next decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 minutes ago, prob2236 said: I'm hoping they do. I mean ultimately what it comes down to is hitting on the picks they make. If they hit on Maye and find some solid additions in later rounds then no one will be pissed. Same thing goes for if they trade out. Blow the picks and you'll be open for scrutiny for the next decade. Yeah, that’s right. Basically don't do things like trade up to get Tyquan Thornton when Pickens was just sitting there…..still not over it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prob2236 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said: Yeah, that’s right. Basically don't do things like trade up to get Tyquan Thornton when Pickens was just sitting there…..still not over it Or move back from 21 to 29 to draft a guard who was projected to go in the 4th round (Cole Strange) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.