Soko Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 10 hours ago, bomont said: lol @ that tweet. I've always maintained that HCs get too much credit when a team wins and too much blame when they lose. They aren't the ones out there on the field making (or not making) the plays. Reid is a good coach but largely a beneficiary of good drafts/FA moves, the most obvious being Mahomes. It’s interesting because most of the FF crowd is onboard in terms of “wins aren’t a QB stat” because there’s so much out of their control. Meanwhile you have a HC who usually isn’t responsible for at least 50% of the playcalling, usually not in charge of player acquisition, sometimes not in charge of assistant coaches/coordinators, can’t actively control what does on after the ball is snapped - and yet the only thing we judge them on is W/L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 18 minutes ago, Football_Bachelor08 said: McNabb was relevant BECAUSE of Andy Reid. As soon as McNabb left Philly, he quickly became irrelevant. He was 34-years old when he left Philly lol. That was old for a QB in 2010. It’s not like all these dudes were playing elite football into their mid to late 30s. Look, I think Reid is a fantastic coach. One of the best ever but the lowest draft choice he worked with at QB was Mahomes unless you want to count Kolb who hardly ever played but he was still a 2nd round pick. He had McNabb, Vick and Alex Smith. All top 15 picks. This isn’t Belichick taking a 6th round pick and winning a bunch of super bowls or having a back up who never started a game in college and winning 11 games with him. Belichick is either the GOAT or one of the top 3 greatest head coaches ever. I don’t see how anyone can argue against that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football_Bachelor08 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 48 minutes ago, lavar703 said: He was 34-years old when he left Philly lol. That was old for a QB in 2010. It’s not like all these dudes were playing elite football into their mid to late 30s. Look, I think Reid is a fantastic coach. One of the best ever but the lowest draft choice he worked with at QB was Mahomes unless you want to count Kolb who hardly ever played but he was still a 2nd round pick. He had McNabb, Vick and Alex Smith. All top 15 picks. This isn’t Belichick taking a 6th round pick and winning a bunch of super bowls or having a back up who never started a game in college and winning 11 games with him. Belichick is either the GOAT or one of the top 3 greatest head coaches ever. I don’t see how anyone can argue against that? The "sixth round pick" narrative goes out the window due to the fact he won another Super Bowl with a different coach and completely different system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 7 minutes ago, Football_Bachelor08 said: The "sixth round pick" narrative goes out the window due to the fact he won another Super Bowl with a different coach and completely different system. How is it a “narrative”? Brady was a 6th round pick. If the Patriots had selected Todd Husak instead and the Redskins drafted Brady during the Snyder regime do you think we know who Brady is right now? Your reluctance to give Belichick credit is crazy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football_Bachelor08 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 13 minutes ago, lavar703 said: How is it a “narrative”? Brady was a 6th round pick. If the Patriots had selected Todd Husak instead and the Redskins drafted Brady during the Snyder regime do you think we know who Brady is right now? Your reluctance to give Belichick credit is crazy to me. Belichick's 81-98 record minus Brady combined with Brady winning another ring with another coach in another system is enough to give Belichick no credit at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 1 hour ago, Football_Bachelor08 said: Belichick's 81-98 record minus Brady combined with Brady winning another ring with another coach in another system is enough to give Belichick no credit at all. He coached for 29 years. In 29 years he won double digit games 20 times. Out of all those years he only won 6 or less games 4 times. FOUR. So for 25 out of his 29 years coaching his teams won 7 or more games. He’s won 8 super bowls between being a head coach and a coordinator. He had two super bowls on his resume’ before he ever coached Brady. He went to the playoffs with Mac Jones as his QB for Christ sakes lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted October 11 Author Share Posted October 11 (edited) Why do we cherry pick individual Bill seasons without Brady and can’t use the entire sample size which is enormous like 2008 counts, 2021 counts but 2022 doesn’t nor does 2000 for some reason. Edited October 11 by CP3MVP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted October 11 Author Share Posted October 11 14 hours ago, Football_Bachelor08 said: Jackson was a nobody beforr Chicago and only stayed relevant after 1998 because he inherited Shaq and Kobe. I guarantee you if he had gone to Sacramento or Orlando, he'd be stuck at six rings Someone said we only care about the triangle because of Jordan/Kobe and it became outdated shortly after lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted October 11 Author Share Posted October 11 14 hours ago, bomont said: lol @ that tweet. I've always maintained that HCs get too much credit when a team wins and too much blame when they lose. They aren't the ones out there on the field making (or not making) the plays. Reid is a good coach but largely a beneficiary of good drafts/FA moves, the most obvious being Mahomes. But Andy was great before Mahomes, BB record as a HC is terrible pre and post brady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted October 11 Author Share Posted October 11 17 hours ago, Football_Bachelor08 said: Both had been in the Conference Finals before Phil became coach. Stop acting like he turned a 20-win team into an overnight contender. He didn't build anything. The bulls would’ve eventually won with Doug Collins. Phil caught them at the right time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted October 11 Author Share Posted October 11 3 hours ago, Soko said: It’s interesting because most of the FF crowd is onboard in terms of “wins aren’t a QB stat” because there’s so much out of their control. Meanwhile you have a HC who usually isn’t responsible for at least 50% of the playcalling, usually not in charge of player acquisition, sometimes not in charge of assistant coaches/coordinators, can’t actively control what does on after the ball is snapped - and yet the only thing we judge them on is W/L. So how should we judge HC’s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted October 11 Author Share Posted October 11 2 hours ago, lavar703 said: How is it a “narrative”? Brady was a 6th round pick. If the Patriots had selected Todd Husak instead and the Redskins drafted Brady during the Snyder regime do you think we know who Brady is right now? Your reluctance to give Belichick credit is crazy to me. If bill thought Brady was gonna be anything he wouldn’t have waited till round 6 to draft him and he wouldn’t have given Drew a long term deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y*so*blu Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 Recent years suggest it's very large indeed. It also bears mentioning, however, that Reid was eminently beatable in the playoffs before he got Patrick Mahomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 30 minutes ago, CP3MVP said: So how should we judge HC’s? Don’t have a silver bullet answer, but we should take the totality of it all into the equation, same thing we should do for everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football_Bachelor08 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 49 minutes ago, CP3MVP said: Someone said we only care about the triangle because of Jordan/Kobe and it became outdated shortly after lol Hell even when Jackson was coaching, it was becoming clear that the system itself was overrated. Two of his assistants ran the same system when they had their own head coaching jobs and they never even finished above .500. Why? Because those coaches didn't have generational talents at guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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