BDL 2024 Week 7: Cwmfelinfach Ptrash Pterodactyls @ Las Vegas Bangers

[InjuredReserve]

32 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

But only when the formation is favorable, and with a blocker/receiver in front of him. #nextlevel

I'm picturing 3 different OL remnants protecting each QB

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

4 minutes ago, InjuredReserve said:

I'm picturing 3 different OL remnants protecting each QB

On this note, I'd like to have an honest conversation with you fantastic football minds about the concept I outlined in the gameplan. (This isn't an attempt to sway votes in this game. A strong BDL team had their best player go nuclear against a decent NFL opponent, and my poor garbage monsters are limping. I needed a miracle from the Week 7 games and did not get one.)

If you were playing against an offense that put this formation onto the field, how would you defend it?

[InjuredReserve]

48 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

On this note, I'd like to have an honest conversation with you fantastic football minds about the concept I outlined in the gameplan. (This isn't an attempt to sway votes in this game. A strong BDL team had their best player go nuclear against a decent NFL opponent, and my poor garbage monsters are limping. I needed a miracle from the Week 7 games and did not get one.)

If you were playing against an offense that put this formation onto the field, how would you defend it?

I think bcb said it right earlier today that as a special formation that rolls out super rarely there prob is no plan you can realistically have ready. But, if it's all game this comes to mind:

- 2 Receiving personnel have to come off the field to make this lineup work (bringing in 2 QBs in their place).

- the main alignment is that TL removed a WR and a TE. Has 5 Down lineman. 

If I knew a team ran this, i would attack it this way:

(1) I now have a 5th edge rusher free all game against an OL that doesn't have a TE. So I am going to generate more pressure consistently (edge rusher is free at the LB level since I have no TE to cover).

- I go the edge rusher route bc I don't think you get cute. You force QB1 to have to make super tough decisions now with less receiving options and if he is throwing it backwards to other QBs, i call that a win. Sure we take some deep throws off these super flea flickers, but we also likely generate some fumble recoveries off the number of times these backwards passes have to work (since any drops are fumbles).

(2) I take the weakest member of my secondary (likely my CB3, 2nd Safety, or 3rd LB) and i align him in front of the WR/QB pairing that has the fastest legs (in this case Kyler). Goal here is to essentially play a roaming zone between Jayden and Kyler in the backfield that makes throwing behind the line of scrimmage to the faster QB option a scary premise.

(3) And I shift between man to man and zone looks heavily bc the plan relies on various QBs getting reads and they all have their own strengths and weaknesses. So better to disguise what we are doing (not just play our best style).

I think this approach against this defense leads to an offense like TL's scoring against us a couple times on fun TDs that are crazy. I think we also generate some insane sacks and I could see a huge risk on every drive of some fumble recovery being taken to the house.

[InjuredReserve]

1 minute ago, InjuredReserve said:

I think bcb said it right earlier today that as a special formation that rolls out super rarely there prob is no plan you can realistically have ready. But, if it's all game this comes to mind:

- 2 Receiving personnel have to come off the field to make this lineup work (bringing in 2 QBs in their place).

- the main alignment is that TL removed a WR and a TE. Has 5 Down lineman. 

If I knew a team ran this, i would attack it this way:

(1) I now have a 5th edge rusher free all game against an OL that doesn't have a TE. So I am going to generate more pressure consistently (edge rusher is free at the LB level since I have no TE to cover).

- I go the edge rusher route bc I don't think you get cute. You force QB1 to have to make super tough decisions now with less receiving options and if he is throwing it backwards to other QBs, i call that a win. Sure we take some deep throws off these super flea flickers, but we also likely generate some fumble recoveries off the number of times these backwards passes have to work (since any drops are fumbles).

(2) I take the weakest member of my secondary (likely my CB3, 2nd Safety, or 3rd LB) and i align him in front of the WR/QB pairing that has the fastest legs (in this case Kyler). Goal here is to essentially play a roaming zone between Jayden and Kyler in the backfield that makes throwing behind the line of scrimmage to the faster QB option a scary premise.

(3) And I shift between man to man and zone looks heavily bc the plan relies on various QBs getting reads and they all have their own strengths and weaknesses. So better to disguise what we are doing (not just play our best style).

I think this approach against this defense leads to an offense like TL's scoring against us a couple times on fun TDs that are crazy. I think we also generate some insane sacks and I could see a huge risk on every drive of some fumble recovery being taken to the house.

Oh and this has no bearing on this matchup btw. I was just answering the theoretical. I want to make that extra clear.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

31 minutes ago, InjuredReserve said:

I think bcb said it right earlier today that as a special formation that rolls out super rarely there prob is no plan you can realistically have ready. But, if it's all game this comes to mind:

- 2 Receiving personnel have to come off the field to make this lineup work (bringing in 2 QBs in their place).

- the main alignment is that TL removed a WR and a TE. Has 5 Down lineman. 

If I knew a team ran this, i would attack it this way:

(1) I now have a 5th edge rusher free all game against an OL that doesn't have a TE. So I am going to generate more pressure consistently (edge rusher is free at the LB level since I have no TE to cover).

- I go the edge rusher route bc I don't think you get cute. You force QB1 to have to make super tough decisions now with less receiving options and if he is throwing it backwards to other QBs, i call that a win. Sure we take some deep throws off these super flea flickers, but we also likely generate some fumble recoveries off the number of times these backwards passes have to work (since any drops are fumbles).

(2) I take the weakest member of my secondary (likely my CB3, 2nd Safety, or 3rd LB) and i align him in front of the WR/QB pairing that has the fastest legs (in this case Kyler). Goal here is to essentially play a roaming zone between Jayden and Kyler in the backfield that makes throwing behind the line of scrimmage to the faster QB option a scary premise.

(3) And I shift between man to man and zone looks heavily bc the plan relies on various QBs getting reads and they all have their own strengths and weaknesses. So better to disguise what we are doing (not just play our best style).

I think this approach against this defense leads to an offense like TL's scoring against us a couple times on fun TDs that are crazy. I think we also generate some insane sacks and I could see a huge risk on every drive of some fumble recovery being taken to the house.

Love this. Really want to dive deeper into it but need some clarification. What exactly is the defensive alignment and where are they positioned?

[InjuredReserve]

2 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Love this. Really want to dive deeper into it but need some clarification. What exactly is the defensive alignment and where are they positioned?

A team like mine prob runs with the personnel i used in this game. 4 DL, 2 LB, 1 roving CB/S, 2 outside CBs, and 2 Safeties.

I would think you want the roving player to have the speed to be able to get into the zone between QB1 and QB2 quickly. 

Then your 2 traditional safeties. I think you prob want to run 1 high safety and bring the second safety down on the side of the field that QB3 is on. I would prob need to MS Paint this.

[bcb1213]

1 hour ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

On this note, I'd like to have an honest conversation with you fantastic football minds about the concept I outlined in the gameplan. (This isn't an attempt to sway votes in this game. A strong BDL team had their best player go nuclear against a decent NFL opponent, and my poor garbage monsters are limping. I needed a miracle from the Week 7 games and did not get one.)

If you were playing against an offense that put this formation onto the field, how would you defend it?

Cover 3 flat.  Both your OLB or one OLB and box safety are already headed towards the boundary to cover that zone and will destroy the QB who has to wait for the ball to get there, then catch it cleanly, then throw it if that's what he wants to do.  Meanwhile it keeps three players deep with a normal zone against basically three actual receiving options which elimantes any zone beater type of plays and doesn't lighten the box for the run

Edited 3 hours ago by bcb1213

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 hour ago, InjuredReserve said:

A team like mine prob runs with the personnel i used in this game. 4 DL, 2 LB, 1 roving CB/S, 2 outside CBs, and 2 Safeties.

I would think you want the roving player to have the speed to be able to get into the zone between QB1 and QB2 quickly. 

Then your 2 traditional safeties. I think you prob want to run 1 high safety and bring the second safety down on the side of the field that QB3 is on. I would prob need to MS Paint this.

See, I sort of feel that the offense would just key in on the WR/QB left with one person covering. If that roving CB/S was on the left, they'd abuse the match-up to the right.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 hour ago, bcb1213 said:

Cover 3 flat.  Both your OLB or one OLB and box safety are already headed towards the boundary to cover that zone and will destroy the QB who has to wait for the ball to get there, then catch it cleanly, then throw it if that's what he wants to do.  Meanwhile it keeps three players deep with a normal zone against basically three actual receiving options which elimantes any zone beater type of plays and doesn't lighten the box for the run

Where is that OLB/S aligned so that they would destroy the QB? If they're tight to the line, the throw wouldn't go to the QB. If they're playing off, and positioned 8 yards behind the LOS, that OLB/S isn't getting there in time.

[InjuredReserve]

18 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

See, I sort of feel that the offense would just key in on the WR/QB left with one person covering. If that roving CB/S was on the left, they'd abuse the match-up to the right.

Thats only my extra CB/S. Full alignment would be:

- 4 DL and 1 LB rushing

- 1 roving CB/S between QB1 and QB2

- 1 High Safety

- 2nd safety playing zone but on the side of the field with QB3.

- 2 outside corners in man coverage against the 2 WRs / switching to zone as well.

- Leaves me with 1 LB to cover the RB out of the backfield 

[InjuredReserve]

Love how we are discussing a completely separate plan in here at this point

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 minute ago, InjuredReserve said:

Thats only my extra CB/S. Full alignment would be:

- 4 DL and 1 LB rushing

- 1 roving CB/S between QB1 and QB2

- 1 High Safety

- 2nd safety playing zone but on the side of the field with QB3.

- 2 outside corners in man coverage against the 2 WRs / switching to zone as well.

- Leaves me with 1 LB to cover the RB out of the backfield 

Ahh.

In that case, and while QB1 scans the field, I feel he'd have a great look with the inside and off-tackle running game, right? You're pretty much 1-on-1 along the OLine. I feel like that's a favorable formation to run against.

To break it down differently: you're in a Nickel alignment with a blitzing linebacker and only one safety positioned in the center of the defense. I feel like you'd like your chances in the running game.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

3 minutes ago, InjuredReserve said:

Love how we are discussing a completely separate plan in here at this point

You (rightfully) never would've predicted what I decided to roll out offensively, so it makes sense. (I almost thought about telling you to see how you'd defend against it. I was genuinely curious and love the conversation.)

[bcb1213]

32 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Where is that OLB/S aligned so that they would destroy the QB? If they're tight to the line, the throw wouldn't go to the QB. If they're playing off, and positioned 8 yards behind the LOS, that OLB/S isn't getting there in time.

along the edges of the lone formation, ie across from where a safety would be covering a TE with outside leverage.  Think like a 4-3 with wide LB alignment.  One other thing to consider, especially with Kyler, is once he is not the person under center, he no longer is considered the QB and does not receive protection if he catches said lateralpass

Edited 1 hour ago by bcb1213

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

10 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

along the edges of the lone formation, ie across from where a safety would be covering a TE with outside leverage.  Think like a 4-3 with wide LB alignment.  One other thing to consider, especially with Kyler, is once he is not the person under center, he no longer is considered the QB and does not receive protection if he catches said lateralpass

Alright, trying to visualize this.

You're running a Cover 3 with a box safety and four defensive linemen. Both outside CBs are playing off and dropping at the snap. I feel like the quick throw to the outside WR, whether it be Tyreek or Tee, would be wide open and a glaring mismatch. Right?