e16bball Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, lavar703 said: You want to know when your front office is stupid? When they decide they need an explosive up and down the field offense so they trade for a guy who’s terrified to throw the ball to receivers. When did they ever say that? They had an explosive up and down the field offense for several years and they didn’t win. From everything I could tell, they were trying to go in something of a different direction, with more ball-control and ball-security and the ability to move the ball more consistently (if less explosively) and in more diverse ways. After the Smith move, their two top offensive draft picks were a bell-cow RB and an OL. The Richardson signing is the only thing I can think of that could have indicated they were looking to attack downfield more. But even that was entirely consistent with the Smith move, given how his performance took off with the emergence of Tyreek Hill. I think it’s perfectly legitimate and reasonable to disagree with their decision to move in the direction of a more consistent and conservative and balanced offensive attack. Plenty of fair arguments to suggest that’s not a good plan. But I don’t think they ever meaningfully suggested (or manifested) that they were trying to become an even more high-flying explosive offense, so I don’t think it’s really fair to crush them for failing to execute that as a plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, e16bball said: When did they ever say that? They had an explosive up and down the field offense for several years and they didn’t win. From everything I could tell, they were trying to go in something of a different direction, with more ball-control and ball-security and the ability to move the ball more consistently (if less explosively) and in more diverse ways. After the Smith move, their two top offensive draft picks were a bell-cow RB and an OL. The Richardson signing is the only thing I can think of that could have indicated they were looking to attack downfield more. But even that was entirely consistent with the Smith move, given how his performance took off with the emergence of Tyreek Hill. I think it’s perfectly legitimate and reasonable to disagree with their decision to move in the direction of a more consistent and conservative and balanced offensive attack. Plenty of fair arguments to suggest that’s not a good plan. But I don’t think they ever meaningfully suggested (or manifested) that they were trying to become an even more high-flying explosive offense, so I don’t think it’s really fair to crush them for failing to execute that as a plan. I dunno. Jay said multiple times this offseason that Alex would be throwing the 50/50 balls that we didn't throw before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 36 minutes ago, turtle28 said: I don’t want them to cut Doctson, I didn’t say that, but if he isn’t getting the job done and he’s dropping catchable balls, you have to put someone in there who will at least catch a 10-yard crossing route or in route like Grant used to which, Mo Harris has shown he can do and he’s shown he can make acrobatic catches downfield too. Benching Doctson would be more of a message, but I’m not for cutting him. I agree with your point of wanting a different WR than we drafted, I frankly didn’t want any of the Wrs, I wanted a run stuffer like Kenny Clark or Jarran Reed. I 100% agree with wanting to keep Djax, I was on that train from the beginning, you just can’t replace that kind of talent easily. You keep saying Smith is terrified to go downfield but he did so last year and you’re saying so w/o knowing if deep shots are actually being called or if they’re open or covered by the DBs. If they’re playing two deep safeties, you’re very unlikely to get s deep passing game going. It gets tiresome seeing people defend Alex with the "but he did so last year" argument. The guy literally didn't go downfield his entire career. He had a season where he didn't throw a TD to a single WR. He is who he is. And one year, when he had the speedster in Tyreek Hill as well as one of the best TEs in the game, AND the leading rusher in the league, he was throwing downfield. And people want to hang their hats on it? That's like winning $500 on a scratcher lottery ticket and saying "screw it, I don't need to save for retirement, I'm gonna win $500 a ticket for the rest of my life" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 17 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: It gets tiresome seeing people defend Alex with the "but he did so last year" argument. The guy literally didn't go downfield his entire career. He had a season where he didn't throw a TD to a single WR. He is who he is. And one year, when he had the speedster in Tyreek Hill as well as one of the best TEs in the game, AND the leading rusher in the league, he was throwing downfield. And people want to hang their hats on it? That's like winning $500 on a scratcher lottery ticket and saying "screw it, I don't need to save for retirement, I'm gonna win $500 a ticket for the rest of my life" Well a poster doesn’t have credibility when he’s saying that “Alex is terrified to throw deep” because he did do it last year and he’s attempted a few deep shots this year. He did throw downfield, it’s just he and Crowder were off by a few yards which would’ve been a 42-yd TD Reception. He had a deep shot to PRich in week 1 but Jamar Taylor grabbed his arm so PRich didn’t have a 77-TD Reception. So, to say he won’t attempt it is not a correct characterization. Maybe he doesn’t do enough deep shots but he does attempt some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Well a poster doesn’t have credibility when he’s saying that “Alex is terrified to throw deep” because he did do it last year and hes attempted a few deep shots this year. He did thrown downfield, it’s just he and Crowder were off by a few yards which would’ve been a 42-yd TD Reception. He had a deep shot to PRich in week 1 but Jamar Taylor grabbed his arm so PRich didn’t have a 77-TD Reception. So, to say he won’t attempt it is not a correct characterization. Maybe he doesn’t do enough deep shots but he does attenp some. Again with the "he did do it last year" Again with the $500 scratcher as retirement plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: Again with the "he did do it last year" Again with the $500 scratcher as retirement plan. I gave you and example in each game this year too but they didn’t connect and one drew a 5-yd penalty for a first down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Just now, turtle28 said: I gave you and example in each game this year too but they didn’t connect and one drew a 5-yd penalty for a first down. He IS terrified to throw deep. Throwing it twice deep doesn't negate his terror. You gave me a small sample earlier in a 4 quarter game. Meanwhile, when down 2 scores with 7 minutes left, where was the deep ball? Nowhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: He IS terrified to throw deep. Throwing it twice deep doesn't negate his terror. You gave me a small sample earlier in a 4 quarter game. Meanwhile, when down 2 scores with 7 minutes left, where was the deep ball? Nowhere You don’t just blindly throw the ball deep when it’s covered, you know that. Kirk also had the same issue when seasons began from 2015-2017. It took us a few weeks to get on track. So far this year Kirk has one pass completed over 35 yards ( a 75-yd TD pass to Diggs), not a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, turtle28 said: You don’t just blindly throw the ball deep when it’s covered, you know that. And yet, Jay said we'd be throwing more 50/50 balls. Quote Kirk also had the same issue when seasons began from 2015-2017. It took us a few weeks to get on track. In 2015, Kirk was starting his first full season. In 2016 and 2017, he actually did attempt downfield. Quote So far this year Kirk has one pass completed over 35 yards ( a 75-yd TD pass to Diggs), not a big difference. And attempts? Go look at the play-by-play on nfl.com I have a threshold of 20yds being a "deep" pass. The NFL classifies anything over 15 yards as "deep". Going by my threshold, Alex had one that was not YAC inflated. He had two others that were between 15-20 yards Meanwhile, Kirk in his game had 5 over 20 yards and one in between 15-20yds. And those were just the completions. Now, take a look at the attempts and you'll see Kirk attempting deep more as well. My point remains. When you need multiple scores, I want the QB that is going to take the shots. If its INT I will be mad, sure. But I'd rather take that chance, than a certain defeat like we had yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said: I dunno. Jay said multiple times this offseason that Alex would be throwing the 50/50 balls that we didn't throw before Well you’re right, that’s a silly claim. No one who ever watched Smith play could really believe that. Frankly, to me, that comment speaks to Gruden’s continuing infatuation with Josh Doctson and his mythical 50/50 ball superpowers that somehow never translate to the games. Still, I would strongly suggest that all their moves were consistent with Smith and building the sort of offense you’d expect him to be at his best in. Which is not a high-flying, explosive vertical attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Just signed Michael Floyd as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanTaylorsaPIMP Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 minute ago, lavar703 said: Just signed Michael Floyd as well. Good God. How many 1st round WR busts can one team have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, lavar703 said: Just signed Michael Floyd as well. Yep, drinks on me. I guess Harris’ concussion must be serious because I don’t know why we’d sign them both unless that was true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, SeanTaylorsaPIMP said: Good God. How many 1st round WR busts can one team have? Lmao we also brought in Paxton Lynch for a work out and Kendall Wright. We’re signing all of the leagues first round busts lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, lavar703 said: Lmao we also brought in Paxton Lynch for a work out and Kendall Wright. We’re signing all of the leagues first round busts lol It doesn’t hurt to try out players, you’ll never know when you’ll need them down the road. I was shocked that they sighed both Perriman and Floyd. I guess the Chesson experiment as the #5 WR is over after one week and they really feel Cobbs offers nothing on special teams so they felt they had to do this. Quick is still on the team, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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