NYRaider Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 12 hours ago, beekay414 said: Coby White continues to rise up the boards. He's getting top 10 buzz now. I like Coby but he should probably go back for another year. Tre Jones locked him up in 2/3 meetings this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSlim Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 46 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I like Coby but he should probably go back for another year. Tre Jones locked him up in 2/3 meetings this year. No way...he's almost a gurantee lottery pick at this point, and like bk said, is getting top 10 buzz at this point. I don't think he can pass that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 4 hours ago, NYRaider said: Barrett is very good and will be a good pro. He's scoring at an elite level with a meh 3 point jumper, if he ever improves there he'll be a great scorer at the next level. One thing about him is that he's going to put the work in and will work with the best trainers/players in the world to improve. His dad runs Canadian basketball and Steve Nash is his godfather, they're grooming him to be the face of their program. He scores at an elite level because he takes 20 shots a game. If he had a better understanding of the game I'd feel better about him as a pro but he looks like a volume scorer right now. His O-Rating is not even top 10 on his team, he doesn't make people around him better, and he isn't a great defender, he isn't a good free throw shooter, he takes 7 3s a game while barely shooting 30% from behind the line. He might be a decent pro, but I don't have the faith you and the Canadian Basketball Association have in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 45 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: He scores at an elite level because he takes 20 shots a game. If he had a better understanding of the game I'd feel better about him as a pro but he looks like a volume scorer right now. His O-Rating is not even top 10 on his team, he doesn't make people around him better, and he isn't a great defender, he isn't a good free throw shooter, he takes 7 3s a game while barely shooting 30% from behind the line. He might be a decent pro, but I don't have the faith you and the Canadian Basketball Association have in him. He broke the ACC freshman scoring record and did so at a decent clip, 46% FG with his usage isn't terrible. Especially considering there was a large stretch of games this year where Duke was missing at least one key player and he had to carry a much larger offensive load. I'm not going to put much weight into offensive rating considering he's clearly Duke's 2nd best offensive player by a country mile. He doesn't make those around him better? He averaged 4.1 assists per game this season and was 5th in the ACC in assists as the secondary ball handler playing with Tre Jones who led the ACC in assists. He's been an above average defender all year and projects to be an above average defender at the next level too, he's certainly not a bad defender by any means. The only real question about his game right now is his perimeter shooting. He's actually shot the ball at a solid clip in catch and shoot situations when his feet are set but has struggled shooting from deep off of the dribble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 On 3/18/2019 at 12:18 PM, NYRaider said: It's more about sticking around in the league than getting there. Coming back would allow him to get stronger and improve his game. Next years draft class is shaping up to be one of the worst in recent history, with a good sophomore season he'd be a top 5 pick and more NBA ready. Again, it won't ever happen, but he's not ready for the league right now and will likely spend a lot of time in the D-League next year. The only way he'd go in the 2nd round next year would be because of a major injury. Reddish has a ton of tools, someone will take him in the lottery this year or next year. The NBA draft is about upside, not a players current body of work. 1. There is no reason to assume you would develop more playing part time in NCAA vs playing full time as an NBA player with better staff, competition, and attention. I do understand your concern with his skills being far below NBA caliber though. 2. I agree that 2nd round is unlikely, but I think 20s is very likely in play if he sucks next year in NCAA. Which I think is highly likely because everything I've seen indicates he kind of sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, NYRaider said: He broke the ACC freshman scoring record and did so at a decent clip, 46% FG with his usage isn't terrible. Especially considering there was a large stretch of games this year where Duke was missing at least one key player and he had to carry a much larger offensive load. I'm not going to put much weight into offensive rating considering he's clearly Duke's 2nd best offensive player by a country mile. He doesn't make those around him better? He averaged 4.1 assists per game this season and was 5th in the ACC in assists as the secondary ball handler playing with Tre Jones who led the ACC in assists. He's been an above average defender all year and projects to be an above average defender at the next level too, he's certainly not a bad defender by any means. The only real question about his game right now is his perimeter shooting. He's actually shot the ball at a solid clip in catch and shoot situations when his feet are set but has struggled shooting from deep off of the dribble. Assists don't mean you are making your teammates better. Playing smart basketball makes your teammates better. Playing within an offense makes your teammates better. I don't trust him in those scenarios. He has talent, but he reminds me a lot of a poor mans Andrew Wiggins. He might score 20 a game in the pro's, but it will be empty and full of L's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: Assists don't mean you are making your teammates better. Playing smart basketball makes your teammates better. Playing within an offense makes your teammates better. I don't trust him in those scenarios. He has talent, but he reminds me a lot of a poor mans Andrew Wiggins. He might score 20 a game in the pro's, but it will be empty and full of L's. He's one of the biggest reasons that Duke got the #1 overall seed in the tournament this year. He plays within the offense, Duke needs him to score and take shots, other than Zion they don't have anyone else that can consistently create their own offense. Another thing for both Barrett and Zion is that they should both really benefit from the spacing of the NBA game and the lack of spacing at Duke is something that has hurt both guys because Jones/Reddish have both been inconsistent shooting the ball. It seems like you're just looking at the box score and drawing conclusions about Barrett's game. He's been good defensively and is a monster on the glass for a two guard. Barrett is absolutely nothing like Wiggins, that's a lazy comparison, is it because they're both Canadian? Barrett is the ultimate competitor and has that dog in him that you can't teach. Wiggins has all the physical tools but just doesn't have that alpha mentality that it takes to be great. RJ's accomplishments speak for themselves. For a guy you're swearing is such a "me" first player he has certainly done a lot winning everywhere he has played. • Led Montverde Academy to a 35-0 record and a national championship as a Senior. • Was the first player to sweep every HS national player of the year award since LeBron James. • Led Canada's U19 team to the first gold medal in the country's history in international basketball. • Won MVP of the Fiba U19 tournament at 17 years old, two years younger than the majority of players in the tournament. • Was named 1st Team All-ACC and All-American as a freshman. • Co-led Duke to an ACC tournament title and the #1 seed in the NCAA tournament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: He's one of the biggest reasons that Duke got the #1 overall seed in the tournament this year. He plays within the offense, Duke needs him to score and take shots, other than Zion they don't have anyone else that can consistently create their own offense. Another thing for both Barrett and Zion is that they should both really benefit from the spacing of the NBA game and the lack of spacing at Duke is something that has hurt both guys because Jones/Reddish have both been inconsistent shooting the ball. It seems like you're just looking at the box score and drawing conclusions about Barrett's game. He's been good defensively and is a monster on the glass for a two guard. Barrett is absolutely nothing like Wiggins, that's a lazy comparison, is it because they're both Canadian? Barrett is the ultimate competitor and has that dog in him that you can't teach. Wiggins has all the physical tools but just doesn't have that alpha mentality that it takes to be great. RJ's accomplishments speak for themselves. For a guy you're swearing is such a "me" first player he has certainly done a lot winning everywhere he has played. • Led Montverde Academy to a 35-0 record and a national championship as a Senior. • Was the first player to sweep every HS national player of the year award since LeBron James. • Led Canada's U19 team to the first gold medal in the country's history in international basketball. • Won MVP of the Fiba U19 tournament at 17 years old, two years younger than the majority of players in the tournament. • Was named 1st Team All-ACC and All-American as a freshman. • Co-led Duke to an ACC tournament title and the #1 seed in the NCAA tournament I think you have already been through the high school stats don't matter. Wiggins, Parker, the list goes on were studs in high school and college and did not pan out in the pro's. Every elite high school player wins games given the talent is so spread out. And numbers win you awards, and he has the scoring numbers. I have watched him play and nothing he does excites me. Looks like a lot of bad shots and taking guys one on one which I don't think he will be able to do at the next level. And he is not the reason that Duke got a 1 seed. They were a 2 at best until Zion came back and reminded people why they should be a 1. The 23 points on 10 shots and elite D and rebounding is what got them the 1 seed. RJ almost lost it for him showing he can't show out against good teams without Zion on the court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 42 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: RJ almost lost it for him showing he can't show out against good teams without Zion on the court. In the 6 games Zion was out RJ carried Duke. He averaged 26.2 ppg, 8.2 rpg, and 5.2 apg on 50% FG. But yeah, he can't show out against good teams without Zion. Keep box score scouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, NYRaider said: In the 6 games Zion was out RJ carried Duke. He averaged 26.2 ppg, 8.2 rpg, and 5.2 apg on 50% FG. But yeah, he can't show out against good teams without Zion. Keep box score scouting. They lost all three games against decent competition without Zion. They nearly lost to Wake Forrest without Zion. Empty stats do nothing for me. Someone will put up stats in every game, I just prefer they lead to wins. I have watched RJ. I don't share your mancrush. I don't see it. He reminds me of Wiggins in that he came in as the highest rated highschool prospect and underwhelmed me. I watch his games and just don't see a guy who changes games. He looks like a guy out there for himself and not playing within the offense. If I was box score scouting, I would look at the first UNC game and say he lead the team in rebounds and points, great game, but then I remember watching the game and he didn't stop Cam Johnson, who scored nearly as many as he did, he had 4 assists but nobody other than he and reddish took enough shots to do much, and he lead the team in turnovers. The second game I watched him chuck 27 shots to get 26 points. Another great efficient night. He rebounded well again, I'll give you that, but again didn't make his team better and didn't stop anyone. I get it, your a Duke fan and blindly follow them and their stars. But there are definitely other points of view that have visual and statistical backup that doesn't include his high school stats and accomplishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, roger murdock said: 1. There is no reason to assume you would develop more playing part time in NCAA vs playing full time as an NBA player with better staff, competition, and attention. I do understand your concern with his skills being far below NBA caliber though. I agree with this generally but also realize you get to play all the roles if you stay in college for like 3-4 years. You might be a bench contributor your freshmen year. Then maybe a secondary ballhandler your sophomore year. Then you get to be the man your junior year. So you get on the court experience doing different stuff and making different reads. Which I don't think you really get to do in the NBA unless you go to like a real good team that is patient (like the Raptors or Spurs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 59 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: They lost all three games against decent competition without Zion. They nearly lost to Wake Forrest without Zion. Empty stats do nothing for me. Someone will put up stats in every game, I just prefer they lead to wins. I have watched RJ. I don't share your mancrush. I don't see it. He reminds me of Wiggins in that he came in as the highest rated highschool prospect and underwhelmed me. I watch his games and just don't see a guy who changes games. He looks like a guy out there for himself and not playing within the offense. 2 Duke is 24-1 when they're healthy, just won the ACC tournament, and got the #1 overall seed in the NCAA tournament. RJ broke the ACC scoring record, was 1st team All-ACC and 1st team All-American. What more does the guy have to do? What did Wiggins do at Kansas? You don't see a guy that changes games? Who else does Duke have? Zion has been amazing and so has RJ, for the most part, the rest of their team has been pretty underwhelming throughout the year. Duke's a top 5 defensive team this year, RJ plays a huge role in that and has been an above average on-ball defender all year. Let's just agree to disagree, you clearly box score scout and don't look at any of the contexts of the game so there's no point for us to continue the discussion. You said RJ couldn't stop Cam Johnson so I know that you didn't actually watch the game. RJ only defended Johnson during the first half, he defended Kenny Williams in the 2nd. In that half he had 12 points, 4 of those points came on FT where Marques Bolden switched on him and he got fouled, 4 points came on the fast break, 2 points came from a putback when Duke was in a zone look, and the other 2 points came when he slipped a screen in a pick-n-roll. So of the 12 points, he scored he beat RJ on one play where he slipped a screen. The second half Reddish and O'Connell defended him. RJ surely couldn't stop him though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 USA Today just named RJ Barrett their National Player of the Year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 21 minutes ago, NYRaider said: USA Today just named RJ Barrett their National Player of the Year. Evan turner and Denzel valentine were players of the year in college too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 33 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: Evan turner and Denzel valentine were players of the year in college too. So were Anthony Davis, Blake Griffin, and Kevin Durant. Duke will put a smacking on Michigan State in the E8 if you guys make it that far and you'll see that Barrett is for real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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