Shane Ray

[Dcash4]

4 hours ago, wwhickok said:

My point is ultimately Bud Dupree is not worth 9 million dollars

He also wasn't given $9M because of his worth. He was given the that money because thats what the 5th year value was for a linebacker and the Steelers didnt want to have another crater of a hole while going through the offseason process, nor did the group of free agents provide either any feasible cost effective upgrades and we didnt have the cash to chase down the big names. 

The Steelers didnt GIVE Dupree $9M because they thought thats his worth, they took the NFL payment for the 5th year to ensure he was on the roster. 

I understand the Anthony Barr and Justin Houston elements and the desire for them to be Steelers, I really do....But it's more realistic that we would have cut Dupree and lost out on both of them. Barr says that he was physically sick after agreeing to the Jets and his agent pretty much begged the Vikings to up their offer because thats where he wanted to be. Justin Houston took 2 weeks (thats 2 weeks of losing out on other FA while you chase down one guy) and went to a team w/ so much cap space that could have easily said "The Steelers will match $12M a year? Hows $15 sound with $20M in year 1?". Then we get left with whatever else is out there -- none of which is better than Dupree and none of which will understand this defense like he does either. There is value with the limited amount of practice time that NFL teams have now in the guy you know how to use vs. the guy it will take 8 weeks of the season to figure out - specifically when their talent level is at best the same. 

Anthony Barr and Justin Houston also would have cost us more than $9M, which means we would have had to make other roster changes seeing as how we only have $4M or so in cap space, and that was before rookie deals. Maybe that means Ramon Foster isn't back? Maybe that means we don't get Barron or Nelson? 

Im not trying to convince anyone that Bud Dupree is a good player, because I dont think he is -- I think at his best he is NFL average. But I would at least try to convince people that the move that they made to go down the road that brought Dupree back, guaranteed, to the roster is at least one that makes sense. Everything else is just a hope and a dream, damages our goal of fixing other holes on the roster, or doesnt provide any sort of actual improvement that the thought of dumping Dupree leads many to believe. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Dcash4

[3rivers]

3 hours ago, jebrick said:

When you watch this you are wishing that they were talking about a 1st year or even 2nd year player.

it's strange seeing a former teammate do a review of a player 1 year later.  Watching that video has me saying he did that in those examples vs OT's that had a bad play since this type of pressure doesn't happen near enough with dupree.  Do this vs all OT's often enough, then thats progress.   If dupree can keep improving , thats all good, and maybe coaching was to blame for the lack of that over the years. Fans like us are impatient and time is running out especially since this is his contract season as they call it and is what we see is very overpaid and taking up too much cap space and tying up hopes of the FO.  This year there won't be porter to blame and dupree will be in his 2nd year on the side he prefers ROLB. He might also benefit from a better secondary and ILB 's so everything is helping. 

[3rivers]

31 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Anthony Barr and Justin Houston also would have cost us more than $9M, which means we would have had to make other roster changes seeing as how we only have $4M or so in cap space, and that was before rookie deals. Maybe that means Ramon Foster isn't back? Maybe that means we don't get Barron or Nelson? 

How about not overpaying Pouncey and ben? What's happened is almost like blackmail by the vets "making" you overpay them.  Nelson and Baron stay, stop overpaying other people.  Some might say cut Boswell, another way to go about it. Rework some deals,  Houston at $12.5 avg per is only a few $M to add vs duprees cap value for this year $9.2M. Next year the team will have more space, so the focus would be the cap space this year.  To free up say $4M for this season isn't impossible, thats what a good GM will figure out.  It's not as bad as it used to be when "we don't renegotiate contracts" with Donahoe etc, but still, I would say a GM should consider reworking deals every year to make the cap space especially if a player like dupree has been here 4 years and the team need much better play at OLB NOW .

How many more years does the armchair GM keep staying he will break out this year, it will be worth it now? The point about Houston (not Barr either) is that he is healthy and was returning to form, so that would be the one example I would say is worth the risk. Day 1 2019 (if healthy) he is going to be a force , where as dupree is a question mark unless he breaks out. Go with he known force and then draft RD1 OLB next year and move on is what I would have preferred colbert do.  The team should be in win NOW mode as some put it, but they didn't think like that at OLB.  They could have let dupree hit the market and then said we will match or exceed an offer for you, let him try to get a deal because he most likely would have got a 1 year deal anyways. 

It's over with now, and unless he improves continuously , I expect the rotation to be implemented and his snaps decreased . They did that last year, and I expect that this year  - he won't be a starter full time until he is injured,  the pressure is on. If there isn't improved play opposite Watt, it could be what holds the team back ultimately sin CB, ILB have been improved and safety should  be improved . The offence should be good still and without all the BS from AB, Bell's holdout etc. Depth appear better at RB (in case of injury) , but see how this season goes. 

 

[VigilantZombie]

Tbh, Im over the Big Ben Extension.

Its not surprising and Pouncey is possibly the best C in the lg

[Chieferific]

Dak Prescott is set to make $30 million a year. Just sayin'.

[VigilantZombie]

That's because Jerry Jones is a moron. Because he is worth that into that doesn't make Ben Roethlisberger worth 30 million. Is it debate that could go on forever but let's not sit here and pretend like Ben Roethlisberger was ever going to take a discount. Of course he wants to win but he also knows 31 teams will not win the Superbowl in any given year so while there is a chance that it won't be too Steelers either he still wants to get paid. Let's be honest he is smart to invest in himself because the people in the front office that should have been investing in the team for like ever I've chosen not to and have wasted the years of our quarterback there is no reason that instead of it being Tom Brady when he was Super Bowls did it couldn't have been Ben Roethlisberger the problem is that the front office didn't do enough to keep this team at an elite level

[Chieferific]

No. That's because that's the cost of a starting QB in today's NFL. 

[VigilantZombie]

15 minutes ago, Chieferific said:

No. That's because that's the cost of a starting QB in today's NFL. 

Now that right there was a well-thought-out response that I disagree with

[Dcash4]

Franchise tag next year for a QB is going to be $30M. Yeah, Ben isn’t overpaid. 

[Chieferific]

10 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Now that right there was a well-thought-out response that I disagree with

I'll forgive the attempted insult and ask you to explain. Why do you disagree? That's what most veterans make or are about to make. Certainly the one's that signed recently. And please leave the anomaly that is Tom out of it. 

[jebrick]

3 hours ago, 3rivers said:

it's strange seeing a former teammate do a review of a player 1 year later.  Watching that video has me saying he did that in those examples vs OT's that had a bad play since this type of pressure doesn't happen near enough with dupree.  Do this vs all OT's often enough, then thats progress.   If dupree can keep improving , thats all good, and maybe coaching was to blame for the lack of that over the years. Fans like us are impatient and time is running out especially since this is his contract season as they call it and is what we see is very overpaid and taking up too much cap space and tying up hopes of the FO.  This year there won't be porter to blame and dupree will be in his 2nd year on the side he prefers ROLB. He might also benefit from a better secondary and ILB 's so everything is helping. 

It was not bad OT play but I did notice that both examples had Bud lining up in 9-tech.  THat is a free release for his speed.

[VigilantZombie]

9 minutes ago, Chieferific said:

I'll forgive the attempted insult and ask you to explain. Why do you disagree? That's what most veterans make or are about to make. Certainly the one's that signed recently. And please leave the anomaly that is Tom out of it. 

It wasnt an insult, it was an observation via sarcasm.

I disagree in regards to Dak Prescott. He is NOT worth 30M. With Ben, its debateable, but as I said, I dont have an issue with what he is making. There is a large # of QBs that are currently being vastly overpaid because their team has even worse depth, not because theyre worth that much. I also disagree that Jerry Jones isnt an idiot.

[3rivers]

6 minutes ago, jebrick said:

It was not bad OT play but I did notice that both examples had Bud lining up in 9-tech.  THat is a free release for his speed.

It might have been you or someone else here that pointed out he suited fro 9 tech. He is a bit out of place here, and the coaching (lack of) hasn't helped. Maybe a team that employs the 9 wide will offer him a good deal in the offseason

[3rivers]

45 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

That's because Jerry Jones is a moron. Because he is worth that into that doesn't make Ben Roethlisberger worth 30 million. Is it debate that could go on forever but let's not sit here and pretend like Ben Roethlisberger was ever going to take a discount. Of course he wants to win but he also knows 31 teams will not win the Superbowl in any given year so while there is a chance that it won't be too Steelers either he still wants to get paid. Let's be honest he is smart to invest in himself because the people in the front office that should have been investing in the team for like ever I've chosen not to and have wasted the years of our quarterback there is no reason that instead of it being Tom Brady when he was Super Bowls did it couldn't have been Ben Roethlisberger the problem is that the front office didn't do enough to keep this team at an elite level

other GM's overpaying never helps matters. ben with his resume just cashes in on these others robbing teams.  So much for retiring when he can make this and the team begs for him to return.  Now he has to produce, but will he even show up in september 

The team was kept at an elite level for a while. SB45 was an example of a team not ready, they  got into a deficit that they couldn't overcome. Lots of mental errors in that game, and nice pick 6 ben threw. Remember the score... lost by 4, so the pick 6 had value. 

 

[Chieferific]

Just now, wwhickok said:

It wasnt an insult, it was an observation via sarcasm.

I disagree in regards to Dak Prescott. He is NOT worth 30M. With Ben, its debateable, but as I said, I dont have an issue with what he is making. There is a large # of QBs that are currently being vastly overpaid because their team has even worse depth, not because theyre worth that much. I also disagree that Jerry Jones isnt an idiot.

Whether Dak is worth it isn't the question. I don't think he's worth it but that's what he (and others) are getting paid. I dont think  lots if things are worth the money. Ben is not overpaid and he is the best option even considering the money.