DoleINGout Posted July 3, 2019 Author Share Posted July 3, 2019 35 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said: How is Taj Gibson a smart signing by the Knicks? Leadership for a year and solid bench player who can spot start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 51 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: Leadership for a year and solid bench player who can spot start. Makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 On 7/1/2019 at 3:43 PM, DoleINGout said: I think everything about the city of Miami, Dwayne Wade, and Pat Riley is a perfect fit for Butler. That's why I don't necessarily see it as a stupid move. Smart: Brook Lopez/Millsap/(From the Heat perspective): Whiteside Stupid: Murray An alternative for the nuggets would be what happened to Utah w/ Hayward. They wouldn't give him a 5 year max and then he ended up signing a 3+1 in RFA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 On 7/3/2019 at 12:46 PM, champ11 said: An alternative for the nuggets would be what happened to Utah w/ Hayward. They wouldn't give him a 5 year max and then he ended up signing a 3+1 in RFA IIRC we did offer him a contract and he wanted to test the FA market. It was the perfect storm with Brad Stevens in Boston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 7 hours ago, NYRaider said: IIRC we did offer him a contract and he wanted to test the FA market. It was the perfect storm with Brad Stevens in Boston. https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/5/15923694/gordon-hayward-celtics-jazz-nba-free-agency-2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, champ11 said: https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/5/15923694/gordon-hayward-celtics-jazz-nba-free-agency-2017 So basically we didn't want to give a max deal to someone that hadn't produced like a max player yet, even though he had improved every year. Regardless look at who won that move. The Jazz are a title contender and transformed their roster tenfold and the Celtics are stuck with Hayward on one of the worst contracts in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, NYRaider said: So basically we didn't want to give a max deal to someone that hadn't produced like a max player yet, even though he had improved every year. Regardless look at who won that move. The Jazz are a title contender and transformed their roster tenfold and the Celtics are stuck with Hayward on one of the worst contracts in the league. this is pure homerism and hindsight. how am I supposed to talk to someone about basketball that is clearly going to disregard facts? jazz completed blew that decision....and that's fine! Every great front office has mistakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, champ11 said: this is pure homerism and hindsight. how am I supposed to talk to someone about basketball that is clearly going to disregard facts? jazz completed blew that decision....and that's fine! Every great front office has mistakes. We blew the decision but it was also disloyalty on Hayward's part when he told everyone he was coming back and even asked us to get Rubio and then bounced. Either way it worked out well for the Jazz as Mitchell had the opportunity to be the #1 option and we had space this summer to add Conley/Bojan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, NYRaider said: We blew the decision but it was also disloyalty on Hayward's part when he told everyone he was coming back and even asked us to get Rubio and then bounced. Either way it worked out well for the Jazz as Mitchell had the opportunity to be the #1 option and we had space this summer to add Conley/Bojan. yeah i mean the jazz are in a good spot due to events and decisions completely unrelated to the decision to give Hayward the opportunity to leave after 3 years instead of 5. they lost a borderline all star for nothing. luckily they nailed the mitchell pick. gobert continued to develop into a franchise player. Hayward unfortunately had a terrible injury. we'll see how their moves this offseason work out - puts them in a great spot for this season...they also invested a lot of money and assets into dudes in their 30s and lost key contributors. Edited July 5, 2019 by champ11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, champ11 said: luckily they nailed the mitchell pick. gobert continued to develop into a franchise player. Hayward unfortunately had a terrible injury. we'll see how their moves this offseason work out - puts them in a great spot for this season...they also invested a lot of money and assets into dudes in their 30s and lost key contributors. 4 What key contributors did we lose? We replaced every player with a better or borderline equal replacement. Rubio ---> Conley (Major upgrade) Korver ---> Bogdanovic (Major upgrade) Favors ---> Davis (Slight downgrade) Crowder ---> Green (Push) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, NYRaider said: What key contributors did we lose? We replaced every player with a better or borderline equal replacement. Rubio ---> Conley (Major upgrade) Korver ---> Bogdanovic (Major upgrade) Favors ---> Davis (Slight downgrade) Crowder ---> Green (Push) Davis and Green are clear downgrades from Favors and Crowder, IMO. The Jazz added different types of players. Overall talent got better, but their defensive talent isn't the same. Rubio is a trash offensive player but was great defensively for them. I've heard different things on Bogdanovic's defense - but a couple ppl I trust think he stinks on that end. And then you obviously have Favors and Crowder as really good defenders leaving. I think it's a good gamble for them to get more offensive minded players and trust the system, but we'll see. I don't think it's a lock they are going to jump a tier - they are at their best when Mitchell is on the ball. it will be interesting to see how the dynamic between him and Conley works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Ducks Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Davis is like a good 4-5th big man. That’s it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Oregon Ducks said: Davis is like a good 4-5th big man. That’s it. He's fine as a backup center. Great finisher around the basket, great rebounder, and one of the better 5's at switching in PNR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, champ11 said: Davis and Green are clear downgrades from Favors and Crowder, IMO. The Jazz added different types of players. Overall talent got better, but their defensive talent isn't the same. Rubio is a trash offensive player but was great defensively for them. I've heard different things on Bogdanovic's defense - but a couple ppl I trust think he stinks on that end. And then you obviously have Favors and Crowder as really good defenders leaving. I think it's a good gamble for them to get more offensive minded players and trust the system, but we'll see. I don't think it's a lock they are going to jump a tier - they are at their best when Mitchell is on the ball. it will be interesting to see how the dynamic between him and Conley works. Green isn't as good defensively but I'd argue that he's more versatile defensively than Crowder. He gives us a legit stretch 4 that can defend 1-4 pretty well. I disagree that the defensive talent isn't the same. Rudy is the heart and soul of the defense and he'll still be back there, Conley/Mitchell is one of the best defensive backcourts in the league, Exum/O'Neale/Ingles are all excellent defensive players, and then guys like Green/Davis are both above average defensively as well. Conley is an upgrade to Rubio on both ends of the court by a country mile and it's not even close. Mitchell is never really on ball though even when Rubio went down we had Ingles playing PG and he was the primary ball handler. During the 2nd half of the season Mitchell played like a bonafide superstar he averaged like 25/5/5 on 45% FG and 40% 3FG. It'll be interesting to see how Mitchell looks now that he actually has other scoring threats and shooting around him. We got a lot better this offseason and are poised to make a big jump. We have one of the best development programs in the league and I've heard that Exum and O'Neale both are expected to make a jump this year. Hell, O'Neale might even start at the 4 for us and he's just as good defensively and can space the floor just like Crowder. Plus Mitchell and Rudy should get better with more talent around them as they've improved every year they've been here. The only real loss was Favors but when you can add a guy that averaged 22 ppg on 50% FG/40% 3FG as the #1 option for a playoff team, you do it. Having Favors and Gobert is redundant anyway because you can't play them together for extended minutes in the playoffs. Edited July 5, 2019 by NYRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 37 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Green isn't as good defensively but I'd argue that he's more versatile defensively than Crowder. He gives us a legit stretch 4 that can defend 1-4 pretty well. I disagree that the defensive talent isn't the same. Rudy is the heart and soul of the defense and he'll still be back there, Conley/Mitchell is one of the best defensive backcourts in the league, Exum/O'Neale/Ingles are all excellent defensive players, and then guys like Green/Davis are both above average defensively as well. Conley is an upgrade to Rubio on both ends of the court by a country mile and it's not even close. Mitchell is never really on ball though even when Rubio went down we had Ingles playing PG and he was the primary ball handler. During the 2nd half of the season Mitchell played like a bonafide superstar he averaged like 25/5/5 on 45% FG and 40% 3FG. It'll be interesting to see how Mitchell looks now that he actually has other scoring threats and shooting around him. We got a lot better this offseason and are poised to make a big jump. We have one of the best development programs in the league and I've heard that Exum and O'Neale both are expected to make a jump this year. Hell, O'Neale might even start at the 4 for us and he's just as good defensively and can space the floor just like Crowder. Plus Mitchell and Rudy should get better with more talent around them as they've improved every year they've been here. The only real loss was Favors but when you can add a guy that averaged 22 ppg on 50% FG/40% 3FG as the #1 option for a playoff team, you do it. Having Favors and Gobert is redundant anyway because you can't play them together for extended minutes in the playoffs. Yeah I can agree with most of that. But Mitchell is never really on ball........? Not from what I saw lol. I think on paper the offense looks better. I think Rudy will create an elite defense regardless of who is around him. But I just don’t think they are a lock to jump a level up - we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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