aceinthehouse Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Yes Nap, I don't understand your logic on this issue. We have Orlando Pace at 31 You have the rocket Ismail at 26 I better throw in a draft pick & Pace so I can have the rocket. It doesn't compute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 25 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said: Yes Nap, I don't understand your logic on this issue. We have Orlando Pace at 31 You have the rocket Ismail at 26 I better throw in a draft pick & Pace so I can have the rocket. It doesn't compute. Your player comps are off. Williams isn’t Orlando Pace and Diggs is #1 WR on a good portion of teams right now. Given the age difference and off field issues with Williams, it’s either a straight up swap or we add a lower round pick to the deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganF89 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said: Your player comps are off. Williams isn’t Orlando Pace and Diggs is #1 WR on a good portion of teams right now. Given the age difference and off field issues with Williams, it’s either a straight up swap or we add a lower round pick to the deal you just said we would have to give up trent and a possible pick and now your saying we will get a lower pick. yeah man, ma want to stop while your not ahead. remember Antonio Brown before all the crazyness, a perennail all pro got traded for a 3rd round pick. while LT laremy tunsil who was smoking weed out of a gas mask and 25 years old has never made a pro bowl in his career was traded for two first round picks. that tells you there the value of LT compared to WR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said: Your player comps are off. Williams isn’t Orlando Pace and Diggs is #1 WR on a good portion of teams right now. Given the age difference and off field issues with Williams, it’s either a straight up swap or we add a lower round pick to the deal You’re right. Williams is more athletic... If Williams gets traded to a playoff team, and the next 4 or 5 years plays in big playoff games, he'll be a lock for the HofF Edited October 5, 2019 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 3 hours ago, LoganF89 said: you just said we would have to give up trent and a possible pick and now your saying we will get a lower pick. yeah man, ma want to stop while your not ahead. remember Antonio Brown before all the crazyness, a perennail all pro got traded for a 3rd round pick. while LT laremy tunsil who was smoking weed out of a gas mask and 25 years old has never made a pro bowl in his career was traded for two first round picks. that tells you there the value of LT compared to WR Yes, but Tunsil didn't fail two drug tests like an idiot. I think the trade should be Trent & PRich for Diggs and a mid-round pick. Seems fair for both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 4 hours ago, LoganF89 said: you just said we would have to give up trent and a possible pick and now your saying we will get a lower pick. yeah man, ma want to stop while your not ahead. remember Antonio Brown before all the crazyness, a perennail all pro got traded for a 3rd round pick. while LT laremy tunsil who was smoking weed out of a gas mask and 25 years old has never made a pro bowl in his career was traded for two first round picks. that tells you there the value of LT compared to WR I didn't say we would get a lower pick, I said we would likely have to give one up. I hardly ever post from mobile so that was a typo if you read it that way. And my comparison for Trent Williams was that we would get a fourth and a sixth, maybe a conditional third. Because Brown and Williams are nearly the same. Age 31 years old, which is ancient in football years, and they each have off-field concerns that drop their value, on top of both wanting new contracts. Tunsil got two years because a team got desperate, but aside from one mistake, he's had no issues off the field to speak of, and is 25 years old. Meanwhile, Trent is one failed test away from missing 10 games, not to mention missing some due to injury anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganF89 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said: I didn't say we would get a lower pick, I said we would likely have to give one up. I hardly ever post from mobile so that was a typo if you read it that way. And my comparison for Trent Williams was that we would get a fourth and a sixth, maybe a conditional third. Because Brown and Williams are nearly the same. Age 31 years old, which is ancient in football years, and they each have off-field concerns that drop their value, on top of both wanting new contracts. Tunsil got two years because a team got desperate, but aside from one mistake, he's had no issues off the field to speak of, and is 25 years old. Meanwhile, Trent is one failed test away from missing 10 games, not to mention missing some due to injury anyway. It’s been a long time since Trent had the marijuana issues so I believe that’s passed him and shouldn’t be a problem, I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. 31 for an OT isn’t necessarily retirement time still playing and starting duane Brown 34 joe Staley 35 donald penn 36 andrew whitwortg 37 i get that Trent isn’t in his 20s but who is to say he isn’t going to play another 5 years and at a pro bowl level that he’s proven he’s capable of Trent now is better then them all my trade would be Trent and Prich for Diggs and a 2nd if not then Trent for Diggs and a 3rd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, LoganF89 said: It’s been a long time since Trent had the marijuana issues so I believe that’s passed him and shouldn’t be a problem, I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. 31 for an OT isn’t necessarily retirement time still playing and starting duane Brown 34 joe Staley 35 donald penn 36 andrew whitwortg 37 i get that Trent isn’t in his 20s but who is to say he isn’t going to play another 5 years and at a pro bowl level that he’s proven he’s capable of Trent now is better then them all my trade would be Trent and Prich for Diggs and a 2nd if not then Trent for Diggs and a 3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 2 hours ago, LoganF89 said: It’s been a long time since Trent had the marijuana issues so I believe that’s passed him and shouldn’t be a problem, I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. 31 for an OT isn’t necessarily retirement time still playing and starting duane Brown 34 joe Staley 35 donald penn 36 andrew whitwortg 37 i get that Trent isn’t in his 20s but who is to say he isn’t going to play another 5 years and at a pro bowl level that he’s proven he’s capable of Trent now is better then them all my trade would be Trent and Prich for Diggs and a 2nd if not then Trent for Diggs and a 3rd Those penalties don't reset. So he makes one mistake and smokes the reefer, he gets a 10 game suspension. I am not sure, but if he gets caught with any other banned substance on the list and can't prove it was by accident, the 10 game suspension takes over- and it might escalate because performance-enhancers carry different penalties. Those guys are still playing, but what is their value on the market? It's not much. Donald Penn was picked by us off the scrap heap. Whitworth is playing on a series of one year contracts. Brown was traded, and still didn't net a first round pick, and he was the same age as Williams when he was traded and doesn't come with the injury history or anything that Williams comes with. The average career doesn't last that long, and the value of these players drops precipitously after age 31, unless we're talking QBs. Because Bruce Allen can't say no to sending draft picks for overrated veteran QBs. What's to say that Trent isn't going to play another five years? He hasn't had a full year of playing since 2013. Clearly, he wants the money, but doesn't need it. He could walk away and it appears he would be more than set. He could decide retiring and being able to do what he wants is more worth it than continuing a career. Every week he sits out, is a little more doubt put into everyone's mind about his desire to continue playing, and this is a guy whose effort has been questioned at times as well. A 25 year old #1 WR is worth an even swap of a 31 year old top 10 left tackle. We aren't getting another high draft pick in return. As some have already pointed out, we are usually the ones who give out the extra draft pick instead (see Champ Bailey, Alex Smith.) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 6, 2019 Author Share Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: Those penalties don't reset. So he makes one mistake and smokes the reefer, he gets a 10 game suspension. I am not sure, but if he gets caught with any other banned substance on the list and can't prove it was by accident, the 10 game suspension takes over- and it might escalate because performance-enhancers carry different penalties. Those guys are still playing, but what is their value on the market? It's not much. Donald Penn was picked by us off the scrap heap. Whitworth is playing on a series of one year contracts. Brown was traded, and still didn't net a first round pick, and he was the same age as Williams when he was traded and doesn't come with the injury history or anything that Williams comes with. The average career doesn't last that long, and the value of these players drops precipitously after age 31, unless we're talking QBs. Because Bruce Allen can't say no to sending draft picks for overrated veteran QBs. What's to say that Trent isn't going to play another five years? He hasn't had a full year of playing since 2013. Clearly, he wants the money, but doesn't need it. He could walk away and it appears he would be more than set. He could decide retiring and being able to do what he wants is more worth it than continuing a career. Every week he sits out, is a little more doubt put into everyone's mind about his desire to continue playing, and this is a guy whose effort has been questioned at times as well. A 25 year old #1 WR is worth an even swap of a 31 year old top 10 left tackle. We aren't getting another high draft pick in return. As some have already pointed out, we are usually the ones who give out the extra draft pick instead (see Champ Bailey, Alex Smith.) . I think we should throw in PRich so Kirk has a #2 Wr with speed to go opposite Theilen Kirk’s possession WR. Maybe that only gets back a late round pick - definitely not a 2nd like @LoganF89 Thinks but definitely another pick, whether it’s a mid round pick or late round pick. The reason the Vikes would want PRich is bc if they trade Diggs their #2 WR would be Treadwell and they can’t have that. Edited October 6, 2019 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 27 minutes ago, turtle28 said: I think we should throw in PRich so Kirk has a #2 Wr with speed to go opposite Theilen Kirk’s possession WR. Maybe that only gets back a late round pick - definitely not a 2nd like @LoganF89 Thinks but definitely another pick, whether it’s a mid round pick or late round pick. The reason the Vikes would want PRich is bc if they trade Diggs their #2 WR would be Treadwell and they can’t have that. The problem is these types of trades never happen in the NFL. With all of the different schemes and playbooks, it's hard to have a player adjust, much less sending out a talent like Diggs, while taking on two players. That's stretching a lot of resources to get them up to speed. In the other major sports, you don't have the deep playbooks like in the NFL, you don't have the rotations to worry about that they do, everything is on a much smaller scale and easier for players being dealt to adjust. We're just coming up with Madden trades and thinking they are going to work, when that's just not the case. It's even more rare for a one for one player swap like Williams for Diggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Also, trades are even harder with how the salary cap and how bonuses work in the NFL. Diggs right now is basically untradeable due to his accelerated bonus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 6, 2019 Author Share Posted October 6, 2019 38 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: The problem is these types of trades never happen in the NFL. With all of the different schemes and playbooks, it's hard to have a player adjust, much less sending out a talent like Diggs, while taking on two players. That's stretching a lot of resources to get them up to speed. In the other major sports, you don't have the deep playbooks like in the NFL, you don't have the rotations to worry about that they do, everything is on a much smaller scale and easier for players being dealt to adjust. We're just coming up with Madden trades and thinking they are going to work, when that's just not the case. It's even more rare for a one for one player swap like Williams for Diggs. Doesn't have to be now, the trade can happen next March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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