Soko Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Just now, nagahide13 said: See, it's weird how changing one small thing makes it make complete sense. OP used “sure”, lol. Plus, where’s the discussion to be had? There’s no proof. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, nagahide13 said: 2. Do you have proof of that? Because that's an ACTUAL accusation. He was named in an FBI investigation, plead guilty, and admitted it in open court, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 For my part, I think it's a combination of a bunch of factors. 1. Like @mse326 said, increased tech has given us a better perspective into what's happening, which makes us think more bad calls occur than actually are. 2. The league puts increased standards on officials without providing sufficient training or equipment. 3. The league keeps changing the rules, and officials don't know exactly how to interpret them. We see the result in incredible fashion, ie) "completing the process of the catch" 4. Rather than admit blown calls, the league will sometimes change rules to adjust. The only solution would be for the league to invest more resources into officiating. Equipment, technology, training, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 9 minutes ago, nagahide13 said: 1. Lol. Strike a pose, people are watching. You're trying to make people look/feel stupid, and that's childish. 2. Do you have proof of that? Because that's an ACTUAL accusation. 3. My entire point is that this warrants discussion, not shouting down. 4. I haven't even expressed my opinion. I'm trying to defend posters right to have a discussion without being shouted down. 5. I'm pretty sure you're combining like 5 posters into 1 and arguing against all of them simultaneously. 1. Asking for proof is not about making people feel stupid. Neither is explaining why said evidence is need. 2. He admitted to making calls based on his bets 3. What discussion? What can the discussion be if there is no evidence of it happening? 4. Asking for evidence is not shouting someone down. 5. Only 2, you and the OP. Are we not allowed to post with more than 1 person at a time? I never said you claimed anything expect the historically bad evidence part. Other than that I've only discussed the need for evidence with you and why the evidence you've shown doesn't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: He was named in an FBI investigation, plead guilty, and admitted it in open court, lol. Not for fixing games. Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 53 minutes ago, mse326 said: You should read your OP again, you don't seem to remember what you posted. You said nothing about possibility. You said SURE And there is still no proof that is a possibility other than the fact that there is obviously always a possibility that anyone can be working for nefarious aims. 1 hour ago, mse326 said: Do you have proof of that? Don't confuse being able to see more errors because of HD cameras, more cameras, ability to slow down footage, greater access do to internet. Another claim that is made in this thread with no evidentiary basis. This is you trying to make people look stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, nagahide13 said: Not for fixing games. Nope. He admitted to betting on games, that he was officiating, and certain could-go-either-ways just happened to go the way he was betting - because a group of the officials hated a team. That’s legitimate corruption. ...legitimate corruption, that just so happens to have no relevance to the NFL over a decade later. Just because they work in sports doesn’t make put them under the same umbrella and one (or even many) bad apple doesn’t mean the whole tree is rotten. Without proof it’s a half assed conversation to be had because the theorists won’t be told otherwise. Edited October 27, 2019 by Yin-Yang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said: He admitted to betting on games, that he was officiating, and certain could-go-either-ways just happened to go the way he was betting - because a group of the officials hated a team. That’s legitimate corruption. ...legitimate corruption, that just so happens to have no relevance to the NFL over a decade later. Just because they work in sports doesn’t make put them under the same umbrella and one (or even many) bad apple doesn’t mean the whole tree is rotten. I mean, that's literally my belief. Edited October 27, 2019 by nagahide13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, nagahide13 said: This is you trying to make people look stupid. If that is what you took then I apologize. That is not what I intended. The first was to indicate to him he was changing his position for sure to possible And my response to was that there are reasons we as fans feel that it is worse even if it isn't 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, nagahide13 said: I mean, that's literally my belief. It’s your belief that that’s what Tim did, or that’s what some NFL officials are doing? Because there’s a confession of one and actually nothing to back of the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 1 minute ago, mse326 said: If that is what you took then I apologize. That is not what I intended. The first was to indicate to him he was changing his position for sure to possible And my response to was that there are reasons we as fans feel that it is worse even if it isn't I should probably also point out that I don't really agree with refs being corrupt. I think it's a conversation worth having, but I doubt they're actually corrupt. I also don't feel qualified to talk about the mafia. I think of the mafia as some kind of Scorsese-eque entity. That can't be reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: It’s your belief that that’s what Tim did, or that’s what some NFL officials are doing? Because there’s a confession of one and actually nothing to back of the other. It is my belief that Tim Donaghy bet on games based on his knowledge of his crews inherent biases. That's what he admitted to in open court, not throwing games. That is not happening in the NFL right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, nagahide13 said: It is my belief that Tim Donaghy bet on games based on his knowledge of his crews inherent biases. That's what he admitted to in open court, not throwing games. That is not happening in the NFL right now. But he admitted to doing what he was told by the head official, who he said openly hated the Suns. Besides the point, though. I don’t think he has much relevance to what may or may not be going on in the NFL and conspiracy theories without anything to go off don’t really bring much to the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: A former referee of nearly 13 years ago, from a different sports league, talks about corruption... So how’s that relevant to to the NFL in 2019? This is the equivalent to a basketball player from 2007 saying he would take side bets and throw games, so someone in the NFL must surely be doing it today. It’s relevant because he was a ref. And when you see calls like the ones in the Lions-Packers game, the Falcons game today, and numerous other ones which simply don’t make sense then some questions may arise. Donaghey wasn’t fixing games because that would’ve been to obvious. He was asked to cover the spread or go against it. Which is what may be causing some of the calls or lack of calls in the NFL games. NFL referees are constantly under high pressure and don’t make nearly as much as players do. So they may feel unappreciated or underpaid. Which may lead some to additional ways to get revenue. Then they might receive some offers they can’t refuse Edited October 27, 2019 by rocky_rams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 14 minutes ago, rocky_rams said: It’s relevant because he was a ref. And when you see calls like the ones in the Lions-Packers game, the Falcons game today, and numerous other ones which simply don’t make sense then some questions may arise. A referee from another sports league from over a decade ago. It’s not the same thing. A cop from the LAPD isn’t the same as a cop from the NYPD. A McDonalds restaurant owner from 2007 doesn’t run things the same way a Burger King owner runs things in 2019. One bad politician in Congress from a decade ago doesn’t mean the current Supreme Court Justices are corrupt too. It’s a bad precedent. Occam’s razor says they’re just inept. 14 minutes ago, rocky_rams said: Donaghey wasn’t fixing games because that would’ve been to obvious. He was asked to cover the spread or go against it. Which is what may be causing some of the calls or lack of calls in the NFL games. NFL referees are constantly under high pressure and don’t make nearly as much as players do. So they may feel unappreciated or underpaid. Which may lead some to additional ways to get revenue. Then they might receive some offers they can’t refuse Maybe their family’s are kidnapped by the mob and they’re being forced to make these bad calls? Can’t say for sure, so it’s possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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