Del Rio excited about underrated Kevin Pierre Louis

[turtle28]

5 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I would agree, but based on comments from Rivera this offseason, they view Holcomb as an OLB, and Davis has always been an OLB as well, so Bostic seems to be the only legitimate option at MLB - at least currently.  SDH and KPL are too small to play inside in base.

And, based on the comments from Rivera and DelRio, they like the potential of our young LBs, so why shouldn’t we exactly??

[naptownskinsfan]

6 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I think it depends. I see potential in SDH, Holcomb & Hudson could develop into a future answer at WLB. Also, intrigued in Ryan Anderson developing as a 1 or 2 down SLB that we mostly just use on run downs but is off the field when we’re in nickel & vs good passing teams.

Also, if Foster is healthy enough to make a difference and play at WLB, that could make our LB much better.

As I've said before, a healthy Foster could jump the rankings up for the LB'er corps substantially- maybe 10 spots or so.  But the problem isn't just that he's rehabbing from a devastating knee injury, but there is his shoulder to consider as well.  So I'm not really counting on him until he actually plays, and we see if it's his rookie year form, or his second year form where he's clearly hurting with the shoulder.  

[turtle28]

Just now, naptownskinsfan said:

As I've said before, a healthy Foster could jump the rankings up for the LB'er corps substantially- maybe 10 spots or so.  But the problem isn't just that he's rehabbing from a devastating knee injury, but there is his shoulder to consider as well.  So I'm not really counting on him until he actually plays, and we see if it's his rookie year form, or his second year form where he's clearly hurting with the shoulder.  

I’m not counting on him but all I’m saying is it has to be considered and it has to be considered that our previous Lb coaches didn’t do a good job developing talent and DelRio & Rivera will get more out of Holcomb, SDH & JHC than Manusky & company did.

[naptownskinsfan]

10 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I’m not counting on him but all I’m saying is it has to be considered and it has to be considered that our previous Lb coaches didn’t do a good job developing talent and DelRio & Rivera will get more out of Holcomb, SDH & JHC than Manusky & company did.

Olivadotti and (I can't believe I'm typing this) Rob Ryan did a decent job developing the inside linebackers, at least getting the most out of the least amount of talent.  There is only so much we can do with retread FAs and low round draft choices who we drafted, or picked up off the scrap heap.  We've long needed to invest in linebackers at the top end of the draft in the worst way (outside of pass-rushing) 

[HTTRDynasty]

27 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

And, based on the comments from Rivera and DelRio, they like the potential of our young LBs, so why shouldn’t we exactly??

He was referring to starting someone else over Bostic at MLB.  Based on comments this offseason, we don't have anyone else the coaches see as a starting MLB.  That's a different argument than the one you're making about potential in general.

[turtle28]

4 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Olivadotti and (I can't believe I'm typing this) Rob Ryan did a decent job developing the inside linebackers, at least getting the most out of the least amount of talent.  There is only so much we can do with retread FAs and low round draft choices who we drafted, or picked up off the scrap heap.  We've long needed to invest in linebackers at the top end of the draft in the worst way (outside of pass-rushing) 

If Oviladotti did such a great job then how come we literally haven’t developed any ILBs to be better than below avg this entire decade? Remember, he inherited Fletcher and our ILbs have been average & below since London retired.

And Rob Ryan and Manusky didn’t develop them well either. Or maybe it was just that they didn’t use them correctly, Holcomb wasn’t put in a position to succeed. He is a run stopper who can’t cover. He was awful in coverage and often times blew coverages. Manusky & Ryan Didn’t play SDH enough who is good or even great in coverage, it was stupid. Awful LB coaches compared to Rivera, DelRio & Mills.

[naptownskinsfan]

20 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

If Oviladotti did such a great job then how come we literally haven’t developed any ILBs to be better than below avg this entire decade? Remember, he inherited Fletcher and our ILbs have been average & below since London retired.

And Rob Ryan and Manusky didn’t develop them well either. Or maybe it was just that they didn’t use them correctly, Holcomb wasn’t put in a position to succeed. He is a run stopper who can’t cover. He was awful in coverage and often times blew coverages. Manusky & Ryan Didn’t play SDH enough who is good or even great in coverage, it was stupid. Awful LB coaches compared to Rivera, DelRio & Mills.

Hard to develop players to be better than below average when we don't bring in top-end, or even mid range talent .  

2010: Perry Riley (4th round) 

2011: None

2012: Keenan Robinson (4th round) 

2013 Draft: None

2014 Draft: None

2015 Draft: Martrell Spaight (5th round)

2016: Su'a Cravens (2nd round)* 

2017: Josh Harvey-Clemons (7th round) 

2018: Shaun Dion Hamilton (6th round) 

2019: Cole Holcomb (5th round)

*Cravens was drafted to fulfill the hybrid S/LB role 

So if you take out Cravens, the highest we drafted for ILB was the fourth round.  Three of the ten years we spent in the 3-4, we drafted no one.  No one was drafted until Day 3 of the draft.  We went from having Fletcher, McIntosh and Riley in 2010 to the garbage we have today.  Meanwhile, we added Nick Barnett for a season as a free agent, Will Compton was an UDFA, Mason Foster like Jon Bostic was a scrap heap signing.  The most we invested was in Zach Brown to a one year deal, then brought him back on a three year deal, only to release him after the first year.  

ILB no matter the defense is a three-down position, and in most cases is the captain of the defense.  In the 3-4, usually only one of the ILB's is a three down player due to sub-packages.  Not investing more into the position as a 3-4 team is the main reason why this defense fails.  For Olivadotti mostly, he got the most out of hot garbage after Fletcher, McIntosh, Riley and Robinson left, and he wasn't around when they drafted them- he spent a few years at UGA coaching linebackers.  In many cases, guys you draft in the 4-7 rounds or sign as UDFA aren't going to be starters.  We were lucky to get two of them in the fourth early on, but we've got a collection of role players instead of starters, and that's because the team has refused to invest seriously into the position.  

Like a lot of things in life- you get what you pay for.  

 

[turtle28]

11 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Hard to develop players to be better than below average when we don't bring in top-end, or even mid range talent .  

2010: Perry Riley (4th round) 

2011: None

2012: Keenan Robinson (4th round) 

2013 Draft: None

2014 Draft: None

2015 Draft: Martrell Spaight (5th round)

2016: Su'a Cravens (2nd round)* 

2017: Josh Harvey-Clemons (7th round) 

2018: Shaun Dion Hamilton (6th round) 

2019: Cole Holcomb (5th round)

*Cravens was drafted to fulfill the hybrid S/LB role 

So if you take out Cravens, the highest we drafted for ILB was the fourth round.  Three of the ten years we spent in the 3-4, we drafted no one.  No one was drafted until Day 3 of the draft.  We went from having Fletcher, McIntosh and Riley in 2010 to the garbage we have today.  Meanwhile, we added Nick Barnett for a season as a free agent, Will Compton was an UDFA, Mason Foster like Jon Bostic was a scrap heap signing.  The most we invested was in Zach Brown to a one year deal, then brought him back on a three year deal, only to release him after the first year.  

ILB no matter the defense is a three-down position, and in most cases is the captain of the defense.  In the 3-4, usually only one of the ILB's is a three down player due to sub-packages.  Not investing more into the position as a 3-4 team is the main reason why this defense fails.  For Olivadotti mostly, he got the most out of hot garbage after Fletcher, McIntosh, Riley and Robinson left, and he wasn't around when they drafted them- he spent a few years at UGA coaching linebackers.  In many cases, guys you draft in the 4-7 rounds or sign as UDFA aren't going to be starters.  We were lucky to get two of them in the fourth early on, but we've got a collection of role players instead of starters, and that's because the team has refused to invest seriously into the position.  

Like a lot of things in life- you get what you pay for.  

 

No doubt, this was my argument from 2010-2016 w/ our D, we didn't invest in it enough for sure and one of the few pro bowl talents we had we let walk in Laron Landry in 2012, and franchised Fred Smoke Dog Davis over franchising Landry. 

All Landry did was make the pro bowl in 2012, don't you think we could've used that in our secondary?? 

But, I hear you, my only argument for you to consider is w/o drafting players too high we have developed talent in a few other positions - namely Kirk Cousins, Jordan Reed, Jamison Crowder, Terry McLaurin, Alfred Morris, Ryan Grant, Roy Helu, Kendall Fuller, Breshaud Breeland, Morgan Moses, Dunny, Steven Sims and a previous bust in Erek Flowers. 

So again, what ILBs did we develop this decade?

[naptownskinsfan]

16 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

No doubt, this was my argument from 2010-2016 w/ our D, we didn't invest in it enough for sure and one of the few pro bowl talents we had we let walk in Laron Landry in 2012, and franchised Fred Smoke Dog Davis over franchising Landry. 

All Landry did was make the pro bowl in 2012, don't you think we could've used that in our secondary?? 

But, I hear you, my only argument for you to consider is w/o drafting players too high we have developed talent in a few other positions - namely Kirk Cousins, Jordan Reed, Jamison Crowder, Terry McLaurin, Alfred Morris, Ryan Grant, Roy Helu, Kendall Fuller, Breshaud Breeland, Morgan Moses, Dunny, Steven Sims and a previous bust in Erek Flowers. 

So again, what ILBs did we develop this decade?

So let's get rid of anyone drafted day one or two, which is over half of your list. 

Kirk Cousins- absolutely great development, but considering the offensive minds at work in his development, I would expect this.  

Alfred Morris- can't argue with getting that kind of production out of the sixth round.  

Jamison Crowder- a very good slot receiver, which are getting more and more snaps, but he's not a starter.  

Ryan Gruden- his best season was 45 catches for 573 yards.  Not much to get excited about or developed there.  He was a depth guy. 

Roy Helu- doesn't even deserve to be on this list.  Some of Shanahan's best (worst?) "one and done" running backs had better numbers in one season than Helu did in his career.  Another depth guy. 

Bashaud Breeland- I'll give you this one, he's a solid #2 corner. 

Quinton Dunbar- I'll give you another one

Steven Sims- a bit too early to call this one yet but he is promising. 

So if you take fourth rounders out of it, because given our history- especially at the ILB position we are discussing here- there is a reasonable expectation to get a decent starter in the fourth round, that takes Breeland, Cousins, Helu and Crowder off this list.  And leaves us with a bunch of guys who are depth/role/rotational players save for Morris.  

Which is exactly my point with how the ILB/4-3 LB corps is currently constructed.  A bunch of depth/role/rotational players, and no starters.  Our best talent on paper has a shredded knee and shredded shoulder.  You get what you pay for, and we didn't pay for much.