Week 2 NFL Rankings

[Cheesehawk]

15 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

How in the world are the Packers top 5 on anyone's list with a mediocre defense that still can't stop the run against two teams that are also being listed as 2 of the worst teams in the league? I understand it's only week 2 but don't get this logic at all. 

Listing them as 2nd best is just ridiculous and blatant homerism altogether. 

 

 

 

Packers have scored more points than anyone else in the league through two weeks with a HOF QN who got his mojo back, while also having the #1 rushing attack in the league. We've been without Kenny Clark for the majority of the Vikings game and the entire Lions game, yet we are #12 in rushing defense. From what we've seen its entirely fair to rank the Packers in the top 3.

EDIT: Just saw you ranked Saints as the #2 team in the league.. we watching the same games?

Edited September 24, 2020 by Cheesehawk

[JAF-N72EX]

7 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

I hope the irony of that isn't lost on you. And it's no wonder your kids do it...

GB one spot above ATL ...🤣

*Translation: Person made a good point about my ridiculous post and I have nothing of value to add that supports said post.  Therefore, I have to find a way to take the attention away from my awful post. 

 

[JAF-N72EX]

7 hours ago, Cheesehawk said:

Packers have scored more points than anyone else in the league through two weeks with a HOF QN who got his mojo back, while also having the #1 rushing attack in the league. We've been without Kenny Clark for the majority of the Vikings game and the entire Lions game, yet we are #12 in rushing defense. From what we've seen its entirely fair to rank the Packers in the top 3.

EDIT: Just saw you ranked Saints as the #2 team in the league.. we watching the same games?

The Packers have had a good offense and a mediocre defense. But again, how can you say they are top 3 and in the same sentence say their opponents (Vikings and Lions) are two of the worst teams?  It just seems like you are only looking at the strong/good points (offense and record) while ignoring the weak/negatives (defense and opponent strength).

I also don't see how you can call them the 12th best run defense. They're not 12th in rush defense. Statistically they have been one of the worst in the league. 30th in yds/att (5.2), 29th in TD/att, 26th in 1st down runs (18), 27th in 3rd down runs (5-7), 30th in DVOA (16.2). And this is while having the 3rd least attempts in the league. 

Rush DVOA by downs
1st down: +31.2% (31st)
2nd down: -10.3% (17th)
3rd/4th down: 41.0% (30th)

Overall Defense DVOA by half 
1H: +0.8%(17th)    
2H: +22.9%(26th)

 

All of this matches the eye test too. Losing Clark may hurt but how much? I mean, it didn't matter last year or the 1st drive against Vikings when they ran the ball 6 times in a row for over 40 yards en-route to a TD. They couldn't stop Cook or addison all game--or even Cousins for that matter (allowed 2 big runs in a row). The Lions were running it well until they were forced to throw the ball after being deflated in the last minute of the 1st half when the refs made a BS call and then Cousins turned it over in the opening drive of the 2nd half IIRC (was that the play he took a safety?). Those two plays combined just sucked the life out of them. 

The Packers defense have been terrible against the run and very mediocre overall. Again, against two struggling teams. 

BTW, those aren't my rankings. They are  FO's DAVE rankings. I posted them because felt obligated to post mine since I started the thread but I haven't had the time to put one together. Plus, overall they looked closer to what I would probably end up with . Even though they don't adjust for opponents, they look at both offense, defense and ST's --which I don't think any of us are qualified enough to judge. 

EDIT: I may disagree with you but I still appreciate that you explained your reasoning and did it maturely. Unlike others around here. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by JAF-N72EX

[Billy86]

On 9/24/2020 at 5:02 AM, JAF-N72EX said:

How in the world are the Packers top 5 on anyone's list with a mediocre defense that still can't stop the run against two teams that are also being listed as 2 of the worst teams in the league? I understand it's only week 2 but don't get this logic at all. 

Listing them as 2nd best is just ridiculous and blatant homerism altogether. 

I wouldn't have GB top 2, but getting bent out of shape about them being top 5 after being only the 2nd team in league history to top 40 points in each of their two first games kind of stinks of something. Especially when you factor in that they experienced very little roster turnover from last year, where they went 13-3.

Weren't you recently saying that GB has no talent at RB and predicting them to finish third in the division, with one of those "2 of the worst teams in the league" winning it? 

[JAF-N72EX]

1 hour ago, Billy86 said:

I wouldn't have GB top 2, but getting bent out of shape about them being top 5 after being only the 2nd team in league history to top 40 points in each of their two first games kind of stinks of something. 

So ignore the mediocre defensive and strength of schedule? 

Nobody cares about the arbitrary stat that is highlighted above. And I mean NOBODY. Mitch Trubisky was only the 2nd QB to have something like +300 passing yards and 6TDs and 50 yards rushing. Do you think people cared about that?  So stop using that as a point of reference. 

2 hours ago, Billy86 said:

Weren't you recently saying that GB has no talent at RB and predicting them to finish third in the division, with one of those "2 of the worst teams in the league" winning it? 

No talent at RB....WRONG. I have talked up Jones and Williams MANY of times after their rookie year BEFORE it was cool to do so. I saw something in Jones during his rookie year that I thought made him special. It was his own wrong doings and McCarthy's failure to properly use him that held him back. 

A quick forum search: And I know there are PLENTY of others from myself backing them up.

 

I'm a Bears fan, yes. But I feel like I'm one of the very few on this site who can actually separate their hatred for a team and love for another and give an unbiased opinion. Regardless of the team in question.

So please stop with the victim card and that I have some sort of agenda. I'm simply calling as it is. 

[Hunter2_1]

On 9/25/2020 at 3:10 AM, JAF-N72EX said:

*Translation: Person made a good point about my ridiculous post and I have nothing of value to add that supports said post.  Therefore, I have to find a way to take the attention away from my awful post. 

 

You know...

 

Perhaps you'd care to actually explain why you have ATL so high? Instead of just the banal posts like the above.

It's explanation time now. 

[JAF-N72EX]

5 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

You know...

 

Perhaps you'd care to actually explain why you have ATL so high? Instead of just the banal posts like the above.

It's explanation time now. 

I already have. To someone who actually explained themselves instead of responding childishly. Now move along. 

[Hunter2_1]

1 minute ago, JAF-N72EX said:

I already have. To someone who actually explained themselves instead of responding childishly. Now move along. 

Perhaps you'd like another go....

 

or just admit you're wrong. 

[Billy86]

On 9/26/2020 at 6:37 AM, JAF-N72EX said:

So ignore the mediocre defensive and strength of schedule? 

Nobody cares about the arbitrary stat that is highlighted above. And I mean NOBODY. Mitch Trubisky was only the 2nd QB to have something like +300 passing yards and 6TDs and 50 yards rushing. Do you think people cared about that?  So stop using that as a point of reference. 

No talent at RB....WRONG. I have talked up Jones and Williams MANY of times after their rookie year BEFORE it was cool to do so. I saw something in Jones during his rookie year that I thought made him special. It was his own wrong doings and McCarthy's failure to properly use him that held him back. 

A quick forum search: And I know there are PLENTY of others from myself backing them up.

 

I'm a Bears fan, yes. But I feel like I'm one of the very few on this site who can actually separate their hatred for a team and love for another and give an unbiased opinion. Regardless of the team in question.

So please stop with the victim card and that I have some sort of agenda. I'm simply calling as it is. 

1. Yeah, nobody cares about GB being the top scoring offense in the entire league prior to Sunday, and doing so over both games rather than a, freak 60 dropped in one of them... sure. Well now after week 3 they are still thd top scoring team in the league unless Baltimore put up over 50 tonight, and almost hit 40 again. Sure sure though, nobody cares. Sure. 

 

2. Funny, here you are saying GB have had no real RB for the last 5 years, and you wrote this only a few weeks ago at that - 

 

 

3. Victim card? Put the straw man down. 

 

4. All this is moot as I am sure you now accept GB are a top 5 team thus far, having travelled to NO - who you had as 2nd in the entire league - and winning. Meanwhile, MIN went within 1pt of the undefeated Titans who are fresh off an AFCCG last year, and Detroit beat gave Arizona their first loss of the year. Not bad for 2 of the worst teams in the league. 

[JAF-N72EX]

8 minutes ago, Billy86 said:

1. Yeah, nobody cares about GB being the top scoring offense in the entire league prior to Sunday, and doing so over both games rather than a, freak 60 dropped in one of them... sure. Well now after week 3 they are still thd top scoring team in the league unless Baltimore put up over 50 tonight, and almost hit 40 again. Sure sure though, nobody cares. Sure. 

1) Yes, nobody cares about your pointless 2nd team in history stat. Nobody cared last week,  no body cares this week, and nobody will care next year. Nobody cares.

 

12 minutes ago, Billy86 said:

2. Funny, here you are saying GB have had no real RB for the last 5 years, and you wrote this only a few weeks ago at that - 

Quote

The only thing he has had during the majority of those 5 years

An overrated Lacy, Starks and Ty Montgomery.  Again, stop playing the victim card. 

20 minutes ago, Billy86 said:

4. All this is moot as I am sure you now accept GB are a top 5 team thus far, having travelled to NO - who you had as 2nd in the entire league - and winning. Meanwhile, MIN went within 1pt of the undefeated Titans who are fresh off an AFCCG last year, and Detroit beat gave Arizona their first loss of the year. Not bad for 2 of the worst teams in the league. 

And the defense was still trash despite playing the Saints offense without Thomas. Which goes back to my original point---good offense but a very mediocre defense. 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Billy86 said:

having travelled to NO - who you had as 2nd in the entire league

 

[Billy86]

21 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

1) Yes, nobody cares about your pointless 2nd team in history stat. Nobody cared last week,  no body cares this week, and nobody will care next year. Nobody cares.

 

An overrated Lacy, Starks and Ty Montgomery.  Again, stop playing the victim card. 

And the defense was still trash despite playing the Saints offense without Thomas. Which goes back to my original point---good offense but a very mediocre defense. 

 

 

 

1. Ok so bad run defense = can't be top 5, but top scoring team in the league, and doing so consistently = nobody cares. Yeah, that stink is getting more noticeable alright. 

2. Ha! Eddie Lacy and James Starks last played for GB in 2016 while Montgomery was a rotational RB/WR/returner who was only getting carries for those years. Aaron Jones and Jamal Williams were drafted all the way back in 2017, and in that time have accounted for about 85% of GBs non QB runs. 

Don't go pretending your post didn't clearly state "Those last 5 years has still netted them 3 playoff appearance with Rodgers and the offense carrying them while playing with no real RB,  no real TE, an aging WR (plus vastly overrated Cobb), and an inept defense due to constant poor drafting, development, and ignoring free agency.  " I mean your edge lord 'victim card' nonsense is cringe enough. 

3. So scoring 37 on the road without Davante Adams  = nobody cares, but conceding 30 to the Saints in NO = can't be top 5 because that means bad defense. There's that waft again, as you show your. You had NO as the 2nd best team in the league heading into this very game where they lost to the Packers at home, in this very thread, but I don't expect you to let that get in the way of a good old fashioned agenda. 

[Hunter2_1]

He'll never admit he's wrong, Billy. Even though you've caught him red handed

[JAF-N72EX]

20 hours ago, Billy86 said:

1. Ok so bad run defense = can't be top 5, but top scoring team in the league, and doing so consistently = nobody cares. Yeah, that stink is getting more noticeable alright. 

Pay attention and keep up. 

20 hours ago, Billy86 said:

2. Ha! Eddie Lacy and James Starks last played for GB in 2016 

Yeah, uh...last 5 years would include 2016. Jesus christ. What part of this do not understand LMAO.

20 hours ago, Billy86 said:

Don't go pretending your post didn't clearly state "Those last 5 years has still netted them 3 playoff appearance with Rodgers and the offense carrying them while playing with no real RB,  no real TE, an aging WR (plus vastly overrated Cobb), and an inept defense due to constant poor drafting, development, and ignoring free agency.  " I mean your edge lord 'victim card' nonsense is cringe enough. 

Last 5 years. 2015-19.  3 playoff appeareances. 2015, 16, 19. Majority of those playoff appeareances. 

Again, try to keep up and stop playing the victim card.

20 hours ago, Billy86 said:

You had NO as the 2nd best team in the league

Read the thread. 

@Hunter2_1 You shoudn't even be talking after embarrassing yourself like you did on Sunday. Now go sit down Clown.

 

[Billy86]

1. That is what you're saying though, that nobody cares GB are leading the league in scoring and doing it consistently, but that their giving up points means they can't be top 5.

Another example of your doublethink is being happy to discredit GB because Michael Thomas was missing while completely ignoring the fact Davante Adams was too, making it a wash. If you're going to try and take a dump on GB for giving up 30 with Thomas out then you've got to give huge credit to them for putting up 37 without their own equivalent (and a far less established pass catching group beyond Adams). 

2. Indeed 2016 does count towards the last 5 years. As does 2017. And 2018. And 2019. All of which the Packers had Aaron Jones and Jamal Williams for. But your next comment shows you're well aware of how wrong you were there. 

3. You're really getting sad at this point. You claimed GB had no real RB for the last 5 years despite them having Jamal Williams and Aaron Jones as a 1-2 combo. You then tried shifting the goalposts and lying about it being for the majority of those 5 years, not all of them when Jones and Williams were there for 60% of said 5 years with around 85% of non QB carries, and now you're trying to claim you were only referring to the "majority" of a specific 3 of those 5 years. Repeating some teenage level edge lord comment about "victim cards" doesn't make you any less wrong nor transparent, nor does doing so over and over cause it to even begin to make any sense. You were simply wrong kid, move on. 

4. And in a totally expected move you're now trying to claim you posted these rankings but they weren't yours and you don't agree with them, yet never felt the need upon posting them to state that they weren't your nor that you disagreed with them. Yeah man, just like points scored by GB meaning nothing about how good they are yet points against proves they're not that good, this argument of yours sounds totally legit and intellectually honest. No really, of course. 

 

Tell you what though, go ahead and name 5 teams who have been better than GB so far this season. 

[JAF-N72EX]

25 minutes ago, Billy86 said:

1. That is what you're saying though, that nobody cares GB are leading the league in scoring and doing it consistently, but that their giving up points means they can't be top 5.

Jesus christ. Stop putting words in mouth and go back and ******* read. You threw out some dumb *** stat, and I quote: 
"2nd team in league history to top 40 points in each of their two first games kind of stinks of something." 

I said, nobody cares. Which they don't.

26 minutes ago, Billy86 said:

Another example of your doublethink is being happy to discredit GB because Michael Thomas was missing while completely ignoring the fact Davante Adams was too, making it a wash.

What the hell does Adams have to do with the Packers defense being garbage despite NO playing without Thomas? Once again, you can't even keep up on the same subject. Are you Ok?

 

28 minutes ago, Billy86 said:

2. Indeed 2016 does count towards the last 5 years. As does 2017. And 2018. And 2019

So does 2015. But I'm glad to have shown you what 5 years means.

32 minutes ago, Billy86 said:

 All of which the Packers had Aaron Jones and Jamal Williams for. 

Really? Williams and Jones played for the Packers in 2015 and 2016? Are YOU SURE your OK? 

47 minutes ago, Billy86 said:

3. You're really getting sad at this point. You claimed GB had no real RB for the last 5 years despite them having Jamal Williams and Aaron Jones as a 1-2 combo.

Those last 5 years has still netted them 3 playoff appearance with Rodgers and the offense carrying................The only thing he has had during the majority of those 5 years

2015, 2016, 2019 <<<<<<<<Jones and Williams did NOT play in 2015 and 2016 and those RB's were garbage. 

But go ahead son, keep twisting my words. What else is new. 

45 minutes ago, Billy86 said:

Repeating some teenage level edge lord comment about "victim cards" doesn't make you any less wrong nor transparent, nor does doing so over and over cause it to even begin to make any sense. You were simply wrong kid, move on. 

What the hell are you talking about? You did try to pull the victim card and now your butt hurt because it fired. You claimed I'm hating on your favorite because I'm not kissing their *** and tried putting words in my mouth (seems to be a theme here) about Williams and Jones. 

51 minutes ago, Billy86 said:

And in a totally expected move you're now trying to claim you posted these rankings but they weren't yours and you don't agree with them,

Once again, putting words in my mouth instead of admitting that you didn't read. 

But hey, I'm done here, you girls can have this thread.