incognito_man Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Check the angle from 2:21 to 2:24. I even took a photo of it. You can see the foot down out of bounds with the ball still touching his fingers. I'll buy it. It is very, very close however. One of those that is still tricky after a few hours of analysis and stills. Looks like it should be dead there, but hard to blame anyone for this one. On replay it looks like it was the 'right' call to overturn the TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 9, 2017 Author Share Posted October 9, 2017 Just now, incognito_man said: I'll buy it. It is very, very close however. One of those that is still tricky after a few hours of analysis and stills. Looks like it should be dead there, but hard to blame anyone for this one. On replay it looks like it was the 'right' call to overturn the TD. It's the right call to overturn the TD. I'm just bothered by them seemingly not considering that rule when overturning the play. It made a huge difference in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Check the angle from 2:21 to 2:24. I even took a photo of it. You can see the foot down out of bounds with the ball still touching his fingers. The ball is certainly close to his fingers but it is hard to tell if it is actually touching them without a zoom. The ball was obviously out of his hand at the time of the still picture and was probably at most an inch away from his fingers but you can't tell for sure. Players need to just keep the football tucked in that situation unless it is 4th and goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 9, 2017 Author Share Posted October 9, 2017 Just now, Thomas5737 said: The ball is certainly close to his fingers but it is hard to tell if it is actually touching them without a zoom. The ball was obviously out of his hand at the time of the still picture and was probably at most an inch away from his fingers but you can't tell for sure. Players need to just keep the football tucked in that situation unless it is 4th and goal. The ball was touching his fingers at the time of the picture. You can see the way it slips out when you watch at 2:21 to 2:24. It was still touching him when the foot hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, jrry32 said: It's the right call to overturn the TD. I'm just bothered by them seemingly not considering that rule when overturning the play. It made a huge difference in the game. I would assume they contemplated it. It isn't some obscure rule if you are out of bounds and touch the football it is dead, they all know that. It is a 50/50 call and Seattle has been the better team in the recent past and that usually garners more calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp0k2 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 I couldn't make that call as an official. But touching the ball doesn't equal control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Just now, jrry32 said: The ball was touching his fingers at the time of the picture. You can see the way it slips out when you watch at 2:21 to 2:24. It was still touching him when the foot hits. I can't tell. It is certainly possible and probably just millimeters away if not still touching a finger but it isn't an obvious call either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 9, 2017 Author Share Posted October 9, 2017 Just now, cp0k2 said: I couldn't make that call as an official. But touching the ball doesn't equal control. Control isn't necessary. It's a fumble, but if he makes ANY contact with the ball while out of bounds, the play is dead at that spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, jrry32 said: It's the right call to overturn the TD. I'm just bothered by them seemingly not considering that rule when overturning the play. It made a huge difference in the game. I get it. Those things are too often overlooked (in fact I just posted my own thread about something like this!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 minute ago, cp0k2 said: I couldn't make that call as an official. But touching the ball doesn't equal control. You don't have to control the ball to make it dead when touching it while out of bounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp0k2 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Just now, jrry32 said: Control isn't necessary. It's a fumble, but if he makes ANY contact with the ball while out of bounds, the play is dead at that spot. My bad, I misunderstood what was being argued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 9, 2017 Author Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Thomas5737 said: I can't tell. It is certainly possible and probably just millimeters away if not still touching a finger but it isn't an obvious call either way. Respectfully, when you look at the different angles, it becomes obvious enough that the ball is still touching his fingers at the point his foot hits. And the NFL League Office can combine the angles to get a clear look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 9, 2017 Author Share Posted October 9, 2017 Just now, cp0k2 said: My bad, I misunderstood what was being argued. No worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Respectfully, when you look at the different angles, it becomes obvious enough that the ball is still touching his fingers at the point his foot hits. And the NFL League Office can combine the angles to get a clear look. I wish the TD would have stood and there was no fumble because I have a rooting interest that isn't something anyone cares about. You are possibly correct, I looked at all of the angles and there is a real possibility a finger was still touching the ball when his foot hit out. Without some crazy zoom proving there is no gap between his finger(s) and the ball I can only say it is possible and not a certainty. I certainly understand your side and if it were my team that would be enough video evidence for me but just looking as an outsider I don't think the league needs to apologize or even acknowledge the ruling. It is just too close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 9, 2017 Author Share Posted October 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: I wish the TD would have stood and there was no fumble because I have a rooting interest that isn't something anyone cares about. You are possibly correct, I looked at all of the angles and there is a real possibility a finger was still touching the ball when his foot hit out. Without some crazy zoom proving there is no gap between his finger(s) and the ball I can only say it is possible and not a certainty. I certainly understand your side and if it were my team that would be enough video evidence for me but just looking as an outsider I don't think the league needs to apologize or even acknowledge the ruling. It is just too close. I don't expect the NFL to ever admit a mistake. I don't think you need crazy zoom (although, the NFL has it). Look at the head-on angle at 1:30. If you take it frame by frame, you see that the ball doesn't pop out until Gurley's hand closes. If you take a look at the picture I posted, Gurley's foot is down and his hand is still open. If you were to put those angles together, I think it would show conclusively that Gurley had his fingers on the ball there. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. I just am annoyed that the NFL didn't seem to consider that rule in determining the right call on such an important call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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