If your team needed a HC AND GM, would you want Bill Belichick?

[Tank4Drake]

6 minutes ago, Soggust said:

They also go through bad stretches like all players, right?

Like, why is this "falling off" as opposed to his last year in CLE or first year in NE? Because of age?

You obv know pats more than me, so I ask in good faith:

Was BB preventing Mac from being great and carrying them to playoff success? Or did Mac prove that he isn't an NFL QB, in your mind? (again asking legit this isn't a setup)

Feels like it's just hard to win in the NFL and in a 30 year career you just bound to have some stinkers, esp when you can't figure out the QB position. Now most HC's don't get the leniency of a few years, but I personally feel like 8 SB rings should give you free entry to any clubhouse in America.

 

After like 27 years the guy got figured out? Idk, I think it's just easier to say it's hard to win without a franchise QB.

Now, that might still be his fault, but I see it as a GM problem not a HC problem, personally.

You realize the mind gets less sharp the older you are right? Making Patricia OC last year when he’s never called an offensive play in his life or specialize in offense was a total senile type move. 

[Soggust]

Just now, Tank4Drake said:

Making Patricia OC last year when he’s never called an offensive play in his life or specialize in offense was a total senile type move. 

4D Chess.

[Xmad]

6 hours ago, Tank4Drake said:

You realize the mind gets less sharp the older you are right? Making Patricia OC last year when he’s never called an offensive play in his life or specialize in offense was a total senile type move. 

No one's perfect see Bill bellicheck's coaching tree.

Are you really telling me there was someone else in that tree that could've called offenses better?

You can shake it all you want the most you'll get is a minor winning record and Billy Bob.

[General Tso]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39265007/belichick-contract-open-change-personnel-role

Potentially good news?

[goldfishwars]

I think the problem with Belichick in his current form is that his answer to every setback has been to assert more and more control. Every coaching hire has been a guy who has previously worked for the team, every free agent signed he had some sort of relationship with, every player drafted came via a personal recommendation from the few college coaches he respects or was someone personally worked out at the Shrine Game. At every turn, he stopped innovating and stopped trusting outsiders. 

[MikeT14]

I'm not entirely sure anyone could justify hiring both Bill the GM and Bill the HC. I truly believe that would be a failure of a hire. So, if he wants to keep coaching, I think ideally he realizes that he's going to need to give up his GM status at least.

[Flounch]

No, BB era is over. He's an old school HC not able to change his coaching.

[Soko]

On 1/6/2024 at 1:51 PM, Soggust said:

They also go through bad stretches like all players, right?

Like, why is this "falling off" as opposed to his last year in CLE or first year in NE? Because of age?

You obv know pats more than me, so I ask in good faith:

Was BB preventing Mac from being great and carrying them to playoff success? Or did Mac prove that he isn't an NFL QB, in your mind? (again asking legit this isn't a setup)

Feels like it's just hard to win in the NFL and in a 30 year career you just bound to have some stinkers, esp when you can't figure out the QB position. Now most HC's don't get the leniency of a few years, but I personally feel like 8 SB rings should give you free entry to any clubhouse in America.

 

After like 27 years the guy got figured out? Idk, I think it's just easier to say it's hard to win without a franchise QB.

Now, that might still be his fault, but I see it as a GM problem not a HC problem, personally.

As always, answer probably lies somewhere in the middle, as I do believe Mac was “broken” in his sophomore year. The Patricia/Judge combo was awful, it was an awful decision, and to make matters worse, reportedly Bill wanted to keep Matty P around for 2024, and it was Kraft that wanted a reunion with BoB. Bill deserves all the flak in the world for that. The problem with judging Bill the coach is that every personnel related “excuse” you can give him is directly a result of Bill the GM. There’s no bad playcalling, because he hired the playcaller. There’s no bad QBing, because he drafted the QB. 

Mac had, and maybe still has, potential to be a game manager in this league, IMO. He played like hot garbage this year, and a lot of that was on him, but those struggles just magically weren’t there in his rookie season with a near-equally as bad supporting cast. I’m not sure his tendencies can be fixed, but it wouldn’t be the first time we see a pocket passer develop beyond Y4. It won’t be with NE, though. 

If we can separate Bill the coach from Bill the GM for a minute - Belichick went 7-9 with a Cam Newton led offense. After that it was 10-7 with Mac (and Josh), then 8-9 with Mac (and Patricia/Judge), and then a bottom out this year, obviously. I know this forum is super sour on Mac, and Cam was beyond washed by that point, so I’m not sure what kind of results people were expecting? 25-25 record prior to this year, and with QBs that plenty of people would say aren’t NFL caliber. Some seem to be very confined to the 2020 narrative of “well see who’s greater - Bill or Tom - based on how they are without the other”, when that seems sort of…unfair (again, stressing the idea of looking at Bill the coach, here). Like, if NE had even a solid QB waiting in the wings behind Brady, then you could kind of go out there and make that comparison. But there wasn’t. Cam was the direct replacement, and he’s awful. Bill’s an all-time great coach, but a QB whisperer he is not. 

Another less talked about fact about the post-Brady Patriots was the departure of Ernie Adams. Adams retired prior to the 2021 season, and the level of involvement he had in research and analytics for the Patriots was astronomical. Adams and Scarnecchia leaving had massive negative impacts that, IMO, the team has not recovered from. Meanwhile the team’s chugging along on defense, but the offense is both paper thin and nearly talentless. 

Anyway, rant over. Cliff notes are that Bill the GM has some major flaws, but Bill the coach is still a great coach. Not totally sure you could have one without the other, but recent comments indicate he’s at least willing to give that a try - in NE, anyway. 

Edited January 8 by Soko