Final Fantasy VII Remake / Rebirth / ??? - Spoiler Thread

[Broncofan]

OK realizing that many ppl haven't finished playing the game, I'm putting a spoiler thread, so ppl can talk freely on this.    With a 3rd game in the future, this can live on for that purpose as well.

I'll post my thoughts in the next day or 2, as I've just finished the game.

[Broncofan]

OK let's get the spoiler-related comments, which for the negatives, are important (but won't let the positives get missed too):

AGAIN, if you haven't played to the end...don't read.   I'll protect against side quest spoilers, but anything that happened in the main story is fair game.

So let's go...

 

Negatives:

1.    Teasing the final outcome, but going the safe route - the main quest is really centered around the Black Materia, the Ancients Temple & of course, Sephiroth & Aerith.    The game knows it, and it teases this with fakeouts so many times in the last 2 chapters.   And while that ending was powerful, man, it did feel like they were trying to play "gotcha".    After teasing that the game could go in any direction - they basically didn't change anything of note - maybe Aerith survived, but Cloud died.   Or maybe it's Tifa.   Or Barret.   But nope, we got the same outcome.  I get that saving Aerith might have made it lower-stakes for the finale, though - I just kinda wish they did SOMETHING different.

2.    Sephiroth as final boss - I love Sephiroth.  But if you're going to have 3 games, you can't have Sephiroth be the endgame boss each time.   It takes away the impact, as you know he's coming back.  Jenova would have been a far better choice IMO.

3.   Chadley - I really needed to see less of him.   I get he's needed for the history and be the control room guy, but it would have been far better in the side quests if we just got the info fed from other NPC's where possible.    

4.    Wonky games - god I nearly broke my controller with that Chicken Side quest, Fort Condor & Gears / Gauntlets side games.     Because the main fighting mechanics were so good and responsive, it was so jarring to have such bad controls or arbitrary battle mechanics at other times.

5.   Zack's usage - I get it, he's an example of the new alternate realities.   But man, for hinting at a new FF7 for us to experience, his usage overall as a glorified babysitter for 12 chapters was disappointing, to say the least. 

6.   Multiverse - I get it, it can explain different outcomes.  It's just the default choice to cover for past bad writing. 

 

 

 

Positives:

1.    Multiverse - how is it good & bad?    Well, the multiverse angle is definitely overused in movies today.   And it's an easy way out - but in this setting, it's the only way that works with Remake's ending - and the ending with Aerith, while taking the "safe" approach, is one that aligns with the multiverse angle.  I hate that they faked us out with Cloud blocking the kill shot, only for Aerith to die...but it also means, in some worlds, that's exactly what happened.   I really did like how they had the Beagle Stamp appear in 5 different forms in this game - to underline the different multiverses created with each divergent choice outcome.   It created the explanation of how Aerith's Holy Materia was empty (Whispers drained it), and how she was able to get it back (Cloud collected it from an alternate Aerith).     It does leave open the chance we may see Aerith again in FF VII #3, more than just beyond appearing as a memory & spirit.   That would be ballsy.   If you're giving us the multiverse mechanic, then I hope we see something change for the 3rd act.  So I can't list it as a total negative, the 3rd act will tell.

2.    Fighting / Gameplay - again, I have to say how much better the system was, with total control of the full party AND the real-time attack filling up the ATB gauge, but the Synergy pairins & Abilities rewarding using the whole team.    Fights could be short against weak opponents (thankfully), but Abilities/Synergy/Limits were so damn fun to use.   I have to note that Summons were barely needed as a result, but the tradeoff was way more rewarding than just spamming buttons over & over.

3.    Side Quests that were story focused - I love that side quests gave us way more background on Jessie/Biggs/Wedge, or called back side characters from Remake that I forgot about (the missing GF from Don's house, for example), or expanded on the side characters we met this game.     CAUTION - if you haven't done the side quests, don't read my next part...

Spoiler

Sure, some characters like Kyrie or Beck's gang were annoying, but finding more about Broden gave a lot more impact when he turned, and the Jonny  hotel side quest was uber rewarding (getting that crown from the Tonberry King might have been one of the 5 hardest fights to steal a clean crown).  Plus, the 7th infantry side quest in Chapter 12 sure deepened that storyline even more.   I also loved the twist that Cissnei was a former Turk, and finding out more about Barret's past beyond the Main Quest.    And come on, who can say no to MORE VINCENT VALENTINE......

Yes, a few of them were incredibly annoying mechanics-wise, and others were fetch quests - but overall, they deepened relationships a ton between characters.  Anything that had Cloud-Tifa, Cloud-Barrett or Cloud-Aerith, the payoff was well worth it (I'd say the chicken one was the worst to try and finish, but the ending was almost worth it....ALMOST lol).

4.  Music - again, I have to emphasize how great the score was.  The old faves are still around, and were amazing as always - but the new additions were really terrific. And as trite as the lyrics were, the new theme song, was fantastic - as Loren Allred (the singer who did "Never Enough" on Greatest Showman) performance made it so memorable.    NGL, when the ending credits showed up and the "No Promises To Keep" tag & song played, it had me choked up.  

5.  Those Set Pieces - Junon army parade, the piano pieces with Tifa, and of course, the Loveless performance - reminded me of how I felt playing FF6's Opera for the first time.   Cinematic presentation at its finest.  I got the 100K for Junon, A ratings for the 2 themes I had to play (Tifa & Aerith's theme of course), and got the S in Loveless.    Gotta say it was fun doing all 3.    And yes, the cutscenes just killed it overall. 

6.  Hojo / Shinra / Turks expansion - we really got a ton more on this side, and I have to say, it was everything I hoped for.     I realize they wanted to keep Hojo around for the 3rd act, but him being a mutated boss would have been a great endgame boss (instead of Sephiroth V2...again).   It was also nice to see the rivalries expand more (Scarlett being the one that cost Barret his arm) or close the gap (Aerith revealing to Tseng she never hated him while he was her Shinra guardian), just made them more than shallow 2D Black Hats.   

7.  Party backstories - loved that we got to see the key defining moments for all the main party characters.   Aerith's mom, Tifa's dad, Barret's wife, Yufi reliving Sonin's death (bet we get resolution there in 3rd game!), total chef's kiss.

8.  Queen's Blood - It really is worth playing to the 30 battles. 

 

OVERALL:

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a 7-8/10 game.  It's an amazing game, and if it gets GOTY nomination and some buzz, I wouldn't be surprised....but there are clear imperfections.  It's also true that what they do well, they do amazingly well.   I don't think it's a stretch to say it's the best FF game since FFIX (FFX is one I loved at the time, but man it's aged so poorly with how slow it is).    It really is that well done in terms of making the fighting great, the stories & characterization are so top notch, with great presentation and music.   As a background - Disc 2 of the OG game was around 10-12 hours - so expanding to 40 hours of main story (and at least another 20-30 with side quests) shows how fleshed out it really is.      As much as the negatives are real, it doesn't take away the overall experience...nor my anticipation for Game 3 in 4+ years time (lol trying to be realistic).

Edited March 21 by Broncofan

[NcFinest9erFan]

I finished last Thursday or Friday. It was 1230 am before I finished lol.

I wasn't planning on it but I got to the Jenova boss fight and said well no turning back.

I'm still collecting my thoughts but here's what I have:

1. Aerith still dies. The OG storyline always has to happen.

2. When Cloud goes in to save her, he doesn't actually go through the cave but the portal the whispers made. So does he create a timeline with just him and a living aerith?

3. I forgot that in remake, Cloud not only can see his past memories but also future memories. 

4. I will be re playing both games soon. I find that there's some text in remake that is intruging.

5. At the beginning of rebirth, Zack and Cloud enter midgar. The team is killed/beat up and shinra is looking for an ex-solider with a buster solider... I don't think that's zack as he just appeared so did cloud from that world disappear? jump into another porta/timeline? 

6. How does Marlene know about Sephorith?

7. I hope part three gets release by 2027 for their 30th year anni.

8. Another scene that i have a question about is before the final boss battle in rebirth... The gang sees cloud and a dead aerith. However when the scene fades in and out between Aerith living and dying, the first face we see is Tifa... Is she somehow able to see both endings? I know she doesn't see the aerith cloud sees at the end but I find that scene interesting that they make it seem like its from her point of view.

 

[MikeT14]

That Aerith scene. All the feels again man 🥺

[Broncofan]

OK so full dive into the game, with spoilers.....

The Ending

I know ppl are divided on this one - Aerith IMO is definitely dead, at least the Aerith from our world.   I do think there may be alternate Aerith's who survived, and "our" Aerith may be in the Lifestream.  That all fits.    Especially since we got the scene where Tifa saw Aerith alive, and saw her dead, in that confusing sequence of events.

But I also think there's a more concrete possibility that was raised by a pretty famous online player (Maximillian Dood) - that Aerith is actually dead, and we're just getting bad narrator Cloud who's literally being influenced by the Jenova cells to see the Aerith we got at the end.   Especially since she told Cloud she was going to take on Sephiroth, and yet by the end, she went 180 degrees and wanted Cloud to take Sephiroth on.   Plus, if you pay attention to that last goodbye scene, the only time you see Aerith appear in "spirit" form is when Cloud is looking over.   Every time there's no Cloud to watch what's going on, you don't see Aerith.  I know the explanation is that only Cloud can see spirit Aerith - but it also raises the possibilty it's just a hallucination and Cloud's being manipulated.    The only reason I don't buy it 100 percent is because of the scene where Tifa saw a living Aerith.  But it's clear to me that the ending was deliberately infused with confusing scenes, so we'd be guessing at the final endgame for part 3.

And IMO that's why I think the ending is so divisive - because it's not clear what's happening with Aerith, and it's so ambiguous, it gave an ending without the true emotional impact of losing her for good that we had in the OG game.    I've read a ton of online comments where ppl complain they didn't get a chance to see the big goodbye scene with Cloud & Aerith in the lake, and they felt it wasn't as impactful.       I think the team deliberately had the final date and church goodbye scene (where alt Aerith gave the fully recharged White Materia back to Cloud just b4 Sephiroth finds her), was made with this understanding.  When you replay the game a 2nd time and see that church scene knowing what's going to happen next...man, it hits like a gut punch.

Still, I agree that having an ambiguous ending with so much going on made the ending nowhere near as an emotional gut punch as the OG game.   But it also seems that the team realized this as well.   So why did they go for it?  Judging by Nomura himself, this was was chosen to create Q's for the 3rd game - and Nomura openly said he was "nervous" about how the ending will be received just b4 release. 

https://www.thegamer.com/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-ending-tetsuya-nomura-creative-director-nervous-fan-reaction

What all the above tells me - the writers & Nomura knew what kind of reaction the ending was going to create - and yet they did it anyways.  Why?  Because they're using it for a massive final game payoff.  If they knew it was going to be as divisive as it's been ahead of time, that's the only logical explanation.  So much like you can't judge a trilogy after only 2 movies are out, the same applies here.   

 

Reunion / Sephiroth Goals

In the OG game, Sephiroth's endgame was to use the Black Materia and then reunite the Jenova cells and summon Meteor.    Yet in Rebirth, Sephiroth's goals expanded to bring the worlds together. I don't know how obvious it was to others, I didn't appreciate it until I played it a 2nd time - but it's pretty clear the Reunion has actually happened now - just that Aerith & Cloud intervened in time.  So I'm not at all convinced that a Reunion of worlds is the endgame for part 3.     It's pretty clear Sephiroth is still the Big Bad, and one of my first complaints was using Sephiroth as the Final Boss a 2nd time would take away the impact of part 3.   But I'm wondering if he will still be a Big Bad, but may not the last Big Bad.    Either way, it seems like we've seen a deviation from the OG game here.  

 

Zack / Alternate Worlds

Again, there's nothing that proves this thought - but I did notice that unlike other worlds, we never saw Stamp in the final landing spot where Zack was.    Given that, while Zack talked about trying to reunite - what if he's already in the current world?   Either way, I think it's a given we're going to get a fully playable Zack in Part 3.   I look forward to being able to customize him more, and learn his buff-up attack (which is apparently great, but since you can only play him in last battle and the insanely hard VR mission, it's close to impossible to learn it).  

The other part I'm going on a limb on - Rebirth goes out of its way to suggest that even if you change fates short-term - the OG fate still happens (Biggs & Aerith both still die in the end, and Zack having to keep staring death over & over - suggesting that it's just a matter of time b4 his card is called).   IMO for the Remake trilogy to have a truly unique identity, we're going to see a different final ending for one of Zack or Aerith.    Maybe I'm wrong and both will end up still dead (but together in the lifestream) - that's the most popular speculation I've read.   It just seems like there was no real change to the OG story.   For the remake to have a truly separate identity, it wouldn't surprise me that 1 of Zack/Aerith survives in "our" world.  We'll see.

 

Side Stories IMO We're Definitely Seeing in Part 3 

Yuffie vs. Nero - no-brainer after the flashback scene in the Ancient Temple

Midgar's 7th Division returns - they're either going to help be part of the Highwind, or the Submarine crew.   Bank on it.  Probably my favorite "new" side characters from the 2nd game. 

Cissnei - the amount of attention given to her with Gongaga, and then the Protorelic resolution, and the side quest with her past hinted at - if Zack returns, we're getting a Zack - Cissnei reunion of some sorts.

Corneo / Leslie & missing GF - if it was a side quest this game, you know it's coming back next game.   Corneo running the underground in Wutai is a given, so all these loose ends on that involve Corneo likely get full resolution, given what we've seen with Rebirth tying up loose ends from the OG & Remake that belong in the 2nd game's locations.

Chocobo breeding & Billy - given the world map will be completely open and we have ocean travel, breeding seems like the next logical step from the OG game.   And because Billy's final side quest ending had Sam say he actually never heard from Billy's parents, only that Shinra took them and no one's heard from them since, rather than leave it to our imagination, I'd see their fate (still likely dead, but more depth, like with Ifalna & Aerith) given a concret ending.

Shinra Middle Manager - if you did the Can't Stop, Won't Stop Side Quest (the very last one in the game, and def one you have to do in a 2nd playthrough) - you know he's OP as **** (having posted the high score in the Colliseum battles).     With a return to Midgar in part 3 almost a lock, I can see him actually being an ally NPC now, given how he revolted against Shinra in this game, only to return to Midgar at the very end.

The Gi - no way we're not getting a major resolution on their fate, but also Red XIII's promise to find a way to end their suffering (without giving them back the Black Materia)

More mini-games - The Gold Saucer had a section under construction with snowboarding on the wall - that's a given to be back in Part 3.   Given how much love they gave to returning mini-games, I look forward to this one.   

Queen's Blood return - this is going to be hard to keep out - it was literally perfection.  There's also story references in Chapter 13 that gamers have posted online that actually tie QB to the main story (I'll post it separately when I get the pic).   CRAZY how much love the devs put into every aspect of the game. 

All the travel modes - Nomura & the developers have already said that they build the world map and its scaleability so they could fit Part 3's world in.   Given we got every mode of transport from Disc 1 into this game - I am confident we're seeing different stages of air travel (Highwind baby) & the sub coming back.   

Weapons - NGL, with how hard the 6-8 toughest challenges were this game, I'm kinda terrified with how hard they will make Ruby & Emerald.  

Knights of the Round Table - I think this is one the challenges that Nomura & devs were mentioning when they discussed part 3

The big one - Advent Children- I will be upfront, I still haven't seen it (I will now) - but given we had the references in Remake with the endgame boss fights, it just seems like we'll get either a flash forward to Advent Children, or even a section where you play a famous battle from there.    There's such a strong loyal following of FF fans who are asking for this, with the amount of fan service that Rebirth gave the fanbase, it's hard not to see that happening here (at the very least, i think alt costumes from Advent Children will find their way in).  I think this the "big ask that wasn't in the OG game" from Nomura to the team developers that they are trying to figure out how to add in (link below).

 

There's a six-part long post-game interview with Kitase and developers that was fully translated - you can read the full details here (and go back for the first 5 parts) - https://www.frontlinejp.net/2024/04/18/final-fantasy-vii-rebirth-post-release-interview-part-6-devs-discuss-the-climax-and-the-final-game/

Next up, spoiler thoughts on different characters:

 

Cloud

Compared to the OG game, the devs went out of their way to make him more fun.   Yes, he's still the brooding, loner guy (the party making jokes about it about "we don't need another loner, we have one already" when Vince keeps ditching them was priceless).   But the mini-games, and the Won't Stop, Can't Stop ending (where he initially refuses to dance, and then goes HAM), it's a perfect encapsulation of seeing Cloud have these brief moments of fun, and kinda revel in his bad-*** ways.   I also think the fact that he suddenly becomes great at every mini-game wasn't just a convenient game mechanic - Max raised the point that game 3 is about Cloud being the key to changing the future, instead of Aerith's Holy and/or Lifestream powers stopping Sephiroth - Cloud's ability to become great at these different mini-games speaks to his future impact. 

Combat-wise, Cloud's ability to stay in the air or remotely fire low-impact (but ATB-building) projectile attacks after dodging was a godsend in the VR challenges.  It really did make him feel like the do-it-all guy.   The dodge/parry & synergy combos just made battles so much more fun than button-mashing square, wait for ATB & hit spells.

 

Barrett

He was transformed in Remake from the caricature US OG character, and nothing changed - he's great.   The Cosmo Canyon flashbacks, the Dyne story, were all masterpieces.  The devs weren't afraid to make him more soft either - his breakdown when talking about Marlene in the Junon side quest (when you're on that super long dog walk to the 2nd town) cracked me up.    And even his "date" with Cloud showed so much depth from the angry Mr. T caricature we saw in the OG game.     

 

Battle-wise, he's such a tank, and so effective from long-range, he was a lot more fun to play with in this game with the Synergy abilities (his Sweet & Sour Aerith combo wth the sunglasses was my fave to watch).

 

Red XIII

It was fun how they made him into a teen masquerading as a sage, I didn't see that coming.  And his side story with his parents' fate was a ridiculous tearjerker that added so much depth (as well as giving a real backstory to the Black Materia, and the Gi/Cetra conflict and backstory).   

He wasn't my favorite to use in combat, but his character growth and Cosmo Canyon's chapter (outside of that maddening 3rd flying obstacle course), was so much fun.

 

Cait Sith

I was absolutely stunned at how they turned Cait Sith from an afterthought novelty in the OG game into such a great character.   It's funny that I forgot he was included without context in Remake, and this was a massive source of confusion for new gamers in Remake (and massive excitement from OG fans).   To me, he was a curiosity returned, not much more.

Man, I couldn't have been more wrong.  He became so likeable, and his combat so wacky (if you get his Luck way up, it becomes insane).   My daughter played with him and Yuffie or Aerith (when magic needed) most of the time in her playthrough for Ch 9-12 lol.    And the devs were absolutely sneaky when they had him make those 3 obscure predictions, all of which came true.   Then to have him betray the group as in the OG game, but have him be soul-crushed in losing them ("it almost felt like we were friends" - OMG perfection ending to that chapter), and his sacrifice to rescue the group (yes, it wasn't quite as big a sacrifice lol, but impact wise such a great scene) in the Ancient Temple - amazing all around. Just an absolute tip of my cap to them on his development.

And while OG fans probably saw this coming, how great was the sequence where he made the 3 predictions that were actually spot-on:

 

Tifa

It was cool how they made Sephiroth focus on creating a rift of doubt with Cloud from the get-go - and adding her to the Lifestream aware individuals by having her swallowed by a Weapon was actually a great touch.  Allowing us to see flashbacks from Tifa's perspective will really add to her ability to help Cloud in part 3 when we get his time there.

Speaking of which - online posters showed a sequence where a NPC literally explains the multiverse concept in FFVII in-game.   As part of a group therapy sharing session that Tifa was part of.    It's wild they just threw it in there lol:

Anyways, back to Tifa - the other part of her beyond-OG development that I loved was how much they explored her friendships with the Avalanche RIP crew, and how much they made Aerith & her spiritual sisters first, and Cloud-competing-GF's-in-waiting second.   The love they had for each other, and Tifa's crushing grief with Aerith's death in the last chapter, were all masterpiece works.   

Combat-wise, the devs took away her broken dodge-attack from Remake, but her skill development and weapon ability created a build where you guarantee she has Concentration on 100 percent of the time - and once you use the Unfettered Fury ability, she literally creates mega bars of ATB with close-quarter attacks in a fraction of the time as others.   Totally broken build facing the enemies who were magic-resistant.   Not as mega-broken as Yuffie/Aerith, but so much fun (especially in the final / VR battles where staggering them by disabling parts/limbs was the key).

 

Yuffie

By far, the best development from the OG game. Instead of an optional. single-minded bratty hotheaded kid...we got that hotheaded, single minded kid at the start - but her growth into a kid sister to Cloud (date scene kinda finalized the transition), the love-hate relationship (and her bond of vengeance against Scarlett) with Barrett, and her growth from "where's the materia" to a full member of the team (the only thing she wanted at the end was "we gotta save Aerith"), it was fantastic.

And if it wasn't clear - her date crush was Zack, when he visited Wutai in one of the prequel games.   Side comment #2 - she was the best princess in Loveless.  Her lines were gold (OMG the devs crushed it with how wooden of an actor Cloud was too lol);

Combat-wise, once you got the Doppleganger ability, combined with her Elemental Ninjitsu abiilies - she was by far the most useful long-range fighter from the get go.  And once you get enough manuscripts to reduce her ATB usage with commands (it's late in the 1st playthrough that you can access this skill on her tree), her Brumal Form (and Aerith's ATB ward, combined with a Haste and ATB Assist materia, where she creates bars of ATB for the other 2 members in the party) - become co-MVP's in Hard Mode; that combo literally saved me in the VR challenges, and the 6+ toughest boss battles in Hard Mode.   The tradeoff being she's so bad defensively, but the fun factor in playing her, and her versatility - easily the most broken fight character once you learn all of her abiities and buff up to LV70 for the 2nd playthrough (and for the 1st playthrough, the Elemental ninjitsu / Shuriken throw & Doppelganger is so broken at that stage).    Early on, she's the most versatile, but in Hard Mode / 2nd playthrough, OMG she & Aerith are an unstoppable juggernaut combo.

 

Aerith

The thing that impressed me the most with the devs and Aerith is that they kept her as adorable as before, but gave her so much strength and depth with exploring her Cetran roots, her mom's fate and backstory with Hojo, and also shifted the focus from her White Materia / Lifestream vs. Sephiroth, to a character we now know could be aware of what's happening between dimensions and even scheme to move ppl & resources from 1 dimension to another.   And while she was so much more powerful - she still accepted her fate that death was inevitable in almost all (if not all) scenarios.     "Omni-Aerith"'s goodbye to Cloud after their last date in the church in the very last chapter is so powerful when you realize where it's headed.   THAT was the proxy for the OG game goodbye lake scene.   NGL, I was pretty teary-eyed watching that with the 2nd playthrough.

And the thing is - with the Cosmo Canyon night lantern scene (yes it's a Tangled ripoff scene, but OMG so well done), and all those small mini-dates (from Chapter 2 with tower scene, Costa Del Sol beach trip & mini-games, to that amazing song at the end of Loveless, her taking selfies with Cloud in the CC side quest, and yes, the final date in Chapter 14) - we see Aerith just learning to enjoy the life she had left, with the knowledge at the last few occasions, that her time was short.   Along with the ridiculously sad Ifalna flashback, it just made her such an amazing character, 100x more depth than even in the OG game.   

And much like in the OG game - it takes a while, but once Aerith gets all of the  Arcane/ATB/Radiant Ward abilities, and you get the Plumose Rod (highest magic attack) & ATB Boost/First Strike (to give you 2 full ATB bars to start each fight), she's a magic attack MACHINE.   Super slow (which is an unbelievable PITA in the Cactuar challenges), but combined with Yuffie, that pair is just so broken.   Nothing beats seeing Aerith lay down an Arcane Ward, get another ATB bar from ATB Boost, and then unleash 2 LV3 attacks (magnified) on the enemy part - and then watch Yuffie (with Doppelganger ATB skill enabled & Synergy materia attached to a killer materia like Petrify) unleash 4 spells in that same ward on Hard Mode.   My TV nearly exploded at least 10-20x lol.

 

 

I post the above more to highlight just how insane the character development was taken depth-wise, and diversity of combat as their skill tree expands (just in time for Hard Mode 2nd playthrough).  I say that as someone who never played the prequels. or saw Advent Children.  When you think about it, the characters we all love from the OG game, it came from us imagining or projecting traits or filling in the gaps on background.   Whereas in Rebirth, we actually see their growth come to life, but it matches what I think most of us thought would happen if the story was fleshed out.   It's just mind-boggling as to the scale of character exposition we got - it was literally everything and more that I could hope for.    I think that's why the game is so unbelievably amazing to me.   They didn't just do a Remake, they expanded the character growth, the back stories, and did it with gameplay and combat mechanics that are insanely fun, and rewarded you to keep playing everything.  And with side quests that literally enrich the story for 1 party character, or a key NPC who had an impact in earlier games.    It wasn't completing a list of tasks - it was just fun / rewarding the whole time.  

 

For those of who've finished it once and feel like you still want more - try it on Hard Mode, you get amazing gameplay tweaks with a replay where you do the side quests first (and just the side quests) to get the Manuscripts to fully buff your characters, get to LV70 and do Gligamesh Island.   It's worth it.   Then get the key materia up to at least 2nd-best if not highest level (to get to LV70, not hard - Coliseum challenges and side quests will pretty much do it - to fully level Materia, there are farming areas that will do it) and Hard Mode becomes this fantastic (and pretty quick) 2nd playthrough where you get to really appreciate the love this game showed its characters.   With fully buffed support materia (ATB Boost / Magic Focus / Magnify / MP Absorb / HP Absorb / Synergy / ATB Assist materia become MVP-level with Hard Mode).  And if you just do the Main Story, provided you do the 5+ hours to level up to 70 & get the last Protorelic too - it's literally a 10-15 hour run with fully buffed team (so 15-20 hrs total).   The Platinum trophy, on the other hand....diff story lol.

I hated the 6-8 hardest challenges in Platinum, but the Hard Mode replay when you are fully buffed is so rewarding (and so quick in comparison - I think I got through the 14 chapters in under 20 hours doing it that way, and that's with 7-8 bosses I struggled with because my hand-eye quick twitch skils suck).     NGL, I'm going to have a hard time finding another game to play after this one.   Masterpiece all-time GOAT.

Edited June 9 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

On 4/16/2024 at 8:07 AM, NcFinest9erFan said:

I finished last Thursday or Friday. It was 1230 am before I finished lol.

I wasn't planning on it but I got to the Jenova boss fight and said well no turning back.

I'm still collecting my thoughts but here's what I have:

1. Aerith still dies. The OG storyline always has to happen.

2. When Cloud goes in to save her, he doesn't actually go through the cave but the portal the whispers made. So does he create a timeline with just him and a living aerith?

3. I forgot that in remake, Cloud not only can see his past memories but also future memories. 

4. I will be re playing both games soon. I find that there's some text in remake that is intruging.

5. At the beginning of rebirth, Zack and Cloud enter midgar. The team is killed/beat up and shinra is looking for an ex-solider with a buster solider... I don't think that's zack as he just appeared so did cloud from that world disappear? jump into another porta/timeline? 

6. How does Marlene know about Sephorith?

7. I hope part three gets release by 2027 for their 30th year anni.

8. Another scene that i have a question about is before the final boss battle in rebirth... The gang sees cloud and a dead aerith. However when the scene fades in and out between Aerith living and dying, the first face we see is Tifa... Is she somehow able to see both endings? I know she doesn't see the aerith cloud sees at the end but I find that scene interesting that they make it seem like its from her point of view.

 

 

1.   Our Aerith definitely dies.   I wouldn't be sure the Aerith we are seeing is alternate timeline Aerith yet.   

2.  Possibly, but remember that the Whispers usually fight to preserve a timeline.     Some Whispers were helping, most were blocking.   Basically, not sure IMO.

3.   Yeah, it's part of why I think Advent Children Flash Forwards may in fact be in the cards for Part 3.

4.    I don't know if I can go back to Remake, at least not in full mode from scratch.   The combat and hallway-only travelling is just so limiting (that Hell House and those dances and the Aerith/Tifa dress scenes though...maybe).   Remake is such a limited game playability wise compared to Rebirth.

5.   I think once Zack entered with new Cloud, the new timeline was created - so in that world, there may not have been a Cloud.    I do think it could be Zack that they were looking for.   If there was a Cloud, then no, I can't figure what happened to him either.    Then again, we clearly now know that "Omni-Aerith" can move between dimensions and timelines.  I think the Aerith we saw in Chapter 14 wasn't coma-Aerith (that world's version), but the version that knows to move ppl around (and maneuvered to get the full  White Materia to Cloud's OG world).

6.  Marlene knows about Sephiroth presumably because of the past interactions Aerith & Marlene had.    It was after those interactions that Marlene started to have visions / knowledge IIRC.   From what we just saw with Tifa after being sucked into the Weapon, we know exposure to mako can awaken awareness, so maybe something like that happened with Aerith & Marlene's past interactions?

7.   3 encouraging signs - 1.  FVII Remake to Rebirth happened during the pandemic; it's got to be way easier now.    2.   The worldmap and travel mechanics aren't likely to change according to Nomura & devs, that makes it so much easier.  3.  Nomura mentioned that 80+ percent of the staff were retained for the trilogy, which makes programming so much easier.    When you look at those factors and realize it only took 3.5 years to get Remake to Rebirth done, early 2027 for Japan (and Sept for NA) seems very do-able.  Fingers crossed.

8.  I absolutely believe that's what the devs want us to believe - that Tifa can see both outcomes.  If that's the case, it leaves the opening that Aerith from another timeline can survive and reunite.  But it also could be that Tifa literally doesn't see anything different, the frames just suggest she's seeing what Cloud is seeing.    This is 100 percent deliberate on the devs' part IMO - they're trying to basically negate any hypothesis gamers have from being absolutely proven - so there's complete doubt entering part 3.   The tradeoff is that this doubt removes the ability to have closure and a final farewell scene - and why IMO so many negative posts on the ending are coming out.   Again, like I said in my post, the devs and Nomura predicted this as well - and STILL chose to go this way.  The only logical reason to do this is that it's setting up the ultimate payoff for this Q to really deliver in game 3.   Given how they absolutely killed every other part of the game, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and reserve full judgment until part 3 is out.   

Can't wait for Part 3.

[Broncofan]

If you haven't finished QB, I'll tag this even further to protect this:
 

Spoiler

For those that have finished QB and Chapter 13, here's the Ancient Temple pic that really shows Jenovah as an absolute dead ringer for the Shadow Queen.   Given the final story of Shadow Queen, who was originally benevolent and turned evil, sure sounds like Jenova possessed her & took over - only to be defeated by a Sorceress - which absolutely sounds like a Cetran sorceress.   And for gamers to finish QB, they have to finish the 30th match before Chapter 13.   So this placement seems mega-deliberate.   

Much like the rest of the game, instead of just letting our imaginations run wild, the devs decided to expand the story tie-in and reward exploring every nook & cranny.   It's just insane how much deail they poured into this game.   

Fuil thread on Reddit link here - https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasyVII/comments/1bzjvbb/just_to_be_sure_this_is_jenova_right/

 

 

Edited June 7 by Broncofan

[NcFinest9erFan]

On 5/30/2024 at 2:21 PM, Broncofan said:

 

1.   Our Aerith definitely dies.   I wouldn't be sure the Aerith we are seeing is alternate timeline Aerith yet.   

2.  Possibly, but remember that the Whispers usually fight to preserve a timeline.     Some Whispers were helping, most were blocking.   Basically, not sure IMO.

3.   Yeah, it's part of why I think Advent Children Flash Forwards may in fact be in the cards for Part 3.

4.    I don't know if I can go back to Remake, at least not in full mode from scratch.   The combat and hallway-only travelling is just so limiting (that Hell House and those dances and the Aerith/Tifa dress scenes though...maybe).   Remake is such a limited game playability wise compared to Rebirth.

5.   I think once Zack entered with new Cloud, the new timeline was created - so in that world, there may not have been a Cloud.    I do think it could be Zack that they were looking for.   If there was a Cloud, then no, I can't figure what happened to him either.    Then again, we clearly now know that "Omni-Aerith" can move between dimensions and timelines.  I think the Aerith we saw in Chapter 14 wasn't coma-Aerith (that world's version), but the version that knows to move ppl around (and maneuvered to get the full  White Materia to Cloud's OG world).

6.  Marlene knows about Sephiroth presumably because of the past interactions Aerith & Marlene had.    It was after those interactions that Marlene started to have visions / knowledge IIRC.   From what we just saw with Tifa after being sucked into the Weapon, we know exposure to mako can awaken awareness, so maybe something like that happened with Aerith & Marlene's past interactions?

7.   3 encouraging signs - 1.  FVII Remake to Rebirth happened during the pandemic; it's got to be way easier now.    2.   The worldmap and travel mechanics aren't likely to change according to Nomura & devs, that makes it so much easier.  3.  Nomura mentioned that 80+ percent of the staff were retained for the trilogy, which makes programming so much easier.    When you look at those factors and realize it only took 3.5 years to get Remake to Rebirth done, early 2027 for Japan (and Sept for NA) seems very do-able.  Fingers crossed.

8.  I absolutely believe that's what the devs want us to believe - that Tifa can see both outcomes.  If that's the case, it leaves the opening that Aerith from another timeline can survive and reunite.  But it also could be that Tifa literally doesn't see anything different, the frames just suggest she's seeing what Cloud is seeing.    This is 100 percent deliberate on the devs' part IMO - they're trying to basically negate any hypothesis gamers have from being absolutely proven - so there's complete doubt entering part 3.   The tradeoff is that this doubt removes the ability to have closure and a final farewell scene - and why IMO so many negative posts on the ending are coming out.   Again, like I said in my post, the devs and Nomura predicted this as well - and STILL chose to go this way.  The only logical reason to do this is that it's setting up the ultimate payoff for this Q to really deliver in game 3.   Given how they absolutely killed every other part of the game, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and reserve full judgment until part 3 is out.   

Can't wait for Part 3.

#4. I find the Jesse Quest interesting because of some dialogue between Cloud/Biggs/Wedge: "Biggs and Wedge stated that Jessie studied planetology after her father's incident and theorized his spirit is suspended between his body and the heart of the planet, which is her motive for disabling the mako reactors"

#6. I youtube it lol. Turns out Marlene knows because she hugs Aerith in remake. I think even Aerith tells her "ssshhh". 

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

#4. I find the Jesse Quest interesting because of some dialogue between Cloud/Biggs/Wedge: "Biggs and Wedge stated that Jessie studied planetology after her father's incident and theorized his spirit is suspended between his body and the heart of the planet, which is her motive for disabling the mako reactors"

#6. I youtube it lol. Turns out Marlene knows because she hugs Aerith in remake. I think even Aerith tells her "ssshhh". 

Yeah I saw that on #6 too.   Amazing continuity.

Re: #4, what's wild is that the devs threw a line repeating the theory in Cosmo Canyon, with that "therapy" group Tifa spoke to.   I posted the vid in the earlier post above.   Insane, because it's so easy to miss (I did the first time, caught it the 2nd time through).

Edited June 7 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

I realize this isn't for everyone, or even most ppl - but given how much I learned only after trying a ton of diff ways what works best, so I figured anyone who can't get enough of this game, could benefit from what I learned, and save themselves a TON of time.   

 

HARD MODE PREP

Hard mode is hard - but the only way to get all the Manuscripts, and if you want to experience the full gaming experience, def the way to go.  If you want to go all the way and get to Platinum, then you need to do the VR missions & all the mini-games with A+ rank (including piano / sit-up / 3D brawler etc). - but in that case, I'd actually still say do the VR combat challenges - because they are the hardest, but also give the greatest rewards - and so they make the ending run a LOT of fun. 

IMO, this is the way to enjoy Platinum Mode, or Hard Mode (you can skip steps here if no Platinum)

1.  Do all the Battle Coliseum / Nibelheim Shinra Manor Hojo / Corel Prison challenges first

2.  Farm your EXP to LV70 and all your materia (Elemental / Warding / MP & HP Absorb / MP Focus / HP & MP Up / Magnify & the ones I mention below) to full levels.   Guide links on this below.

3.  Do Gilgamesh Island at LV70 (don't need full materia, though, so you decide if you farm Materia AP first).   Reason to do #3 after the farm EXP / Materia is this island is a ton of fun.   Break up the farming & tough VR / minigames.  

4.  PLATINUM - do all Chadley VR challenges , HARD MODE only - do the VR challenges that don't break you - go to Chadley's VR (and use the YT guides - see link below - if you get stuck).  If you get stuck at the 3-4 hardest challenges (Cloud's solo, the last 2 Brutal challenges, and Bonds of Friendship) - you can absolutely do Hard Mode without them, but if you want the Platinum...well, YT is your friend here (and god bless Optinoob).

5.  PLATINUM ONLY - Replay Hard Mode with Chapter select from Chapter 2 onwards, and RESET all the data - but ONLY go to the side quests if you want to get all the manuscripts, then keep doing Chapter 2/3/4/5, etc.   Quicker than Hard Mode with side quest & main quest.  You can skip this if you only want to replay the main story.   If you want the platinum, better to do 6, then 7, then 8.

6.  PLATINUM ONLY - Finish any minigames while you're at the right chapters.   Youtube is your friend here.

7.  Go back to Chapter 1, Chapter select, RESTORE all data (so all the side quests and intel are done) - and then enjoy the Hard Mode speed run (another link below if you get stuck at some key bosses).   Yes, there about 6-8 hard bosses that may need YT help...but man, it's a blast (and a LOT shorter, and pretty seamless story-wise).   Not only is the combat at a totally different level with fully buffed materia and skills, but I noticed so many more subtle touches and continuity pieces (and the ending is easier to absorb knowing all the info they dump on - the first time, it's a case of total cognitive overload).

 

BEST FARMING SPOTS FOR 2ND PLAYTHROUGH

So, you all want to do Hard Mode and get to LV70 and get your Materia maxed out?   Well, best places to farm post-1st playthrough and to get going soon is down below.   The key part - start Chapter 13, NOT chapter 12 - so you can level up Cait Sith; if you do 12, Cait is still gone.   You get all those materia spots to level up.   

1.  Materia AP farming - the cat side quest in Nibelheim is technically the best place - but you HAVE to keep the Queen Bee alive indefinitely to make it the best place.   Otherwise, if you have a TON of materia to level up beyond 1-2 party members worth keeping slots open, the bottom of Gongaga loop (close to the 3rd protorelic area) is fantastic - because you can save/restore and do that loop quickly.   And once your MP absorb / Magic Focus gets to 2 stars or better, you don't need the HP-MP swap materia equipped, either.  

Then, once you're down to only 3-4 materia left and everyone is at LV70, going to the Battle Coliseum and doing the Devil May Care Desperados is the way to go.   This Youtube Video gives you the breakdown, you choose.   The reason you don't use this right away is that ONLY the 2 ppl in the battle level up, along with their materia - whereas Nibelheim & Gongaga level up all 7 members and their materia. 

 

 

2.   EXP farming - if you do the Nibelheim or Gongaga loop - all 7 members will get to LV70 by the time you've levelled up the HP / MP Absorb & Magic Focus / Efficiency (along with Swiftcast if you get it early).  

 

3.  What Materia to buy for each member - I highly recommend you get 7 Healing/Revive, 7 Prayer, 7 Steadfast Block and 7 Fire / Ice / Wind / Lightning - now if you aren't good at blocking, Precision Block isn't as helpful - but Steadfast Block is a must as blocking becomes automatic with your other 2 members you're not controlling at peak levels (and .   Why do you get Prayer AND Healing?   Well, in Hard Mode, you don't get MP regeneration unless you are at benches - so in Chapter 13 & 14, your party is on their own (plus when you are in dungeon areas, like Chapter 3 & Cait Sith Ch 11).  Hard Mode restores HP at every inn, and those Chocobo stops do restore HP & MP, but you want Prayer to heal the whole party with ATB.   Swapping those Materia in & out is just a PITA.   Which is why I say get 7, 1 for each member.  
 

Along with the above reasons - there are specific battles where you may be better off buffing 1 spell with Magic Focus / MP & HP Absorb / Elemental (or Swiftcast) on 1 magic user alone - so you need multiple copies and minimize swapping between members (for the 3rd game being able to swap full material load outs would be awesome instead of 1 slot at a time). 

 

4.  Do I really need to max out my materia for Hard mode - you absolutely want to, because Elemental allows you to absorb damage vs. the hardest boss battles.  And MP / HP absorb reduces the need to restock MP (remember, no items and no MP reload spots once you are indoors!).   And then Magnify/Swiftcast fully maxed changes the actual nature of magic casting.   The Magic Up / Speed Up / Strength Up  & HP Up / MP Up fully maxed makes a massive diff on your best magic / hand fighters.    Plus, Synergy is a godsend (uses NO MP when a non-controlled party member uses a magic attack in combo with your ATB attack - when you have an Arcane ward up, you're getting Aerith firing 2 spells for the price of 1, and 2nd character firing a mega spell 2x at NO ATB - just pray for your TV screen lol).

 

 

PLATINUM CHASERS

My only advice if you want to do this - Optinoob's guides for both Hard Mode tough boss fights & the INSANE Brutal & Legendary challenges are a lifesaver.   He explains the materia load out and party construction, and walks you through the steps you need to do.   I wouldn't have even come close without them

 

He makes separate videos for Hard Mode chapters & tough boss fights, but here's his total Hard Mode run-through (6.5 hours, but no way it's that fast for me lol):

 

Here's the link to his guide to the 2nd hardest VR mission, but he again has separate how-to's for each one:

 

For the side games, YT has tons of videos on the toughest challenges - 3D brawler (the pause-cheese method),  Sit-up challenge with Jules,  Desert Rush / Cactuar Challenge with Aerith / Fort Condor hard mode / Gears & Gambits Hard Mode challenges (NGL I needed help with all of them) - use 'em, don't feel bad lol.

__________________________-

 

Again, I get if ppl don't want to do it - but if the game sinks its claws and you want to experience it a 2nd time, using Hard Mode, or can't resist going Platinum (again, this is my first Platinum ever), well I hope the above helps.

Edited June 11 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

Definitely a section that deserves its own post.

 

FAVORITE MUSIC

Honestly, I could say ALL of it..so many tracks that hit home.   But let's talk about the ones that stick in your gut when they hit, and you keep humming / wanting to hear again....

 

1.  Aerith / Jenova Lifeclinger music to start the final boss battle - yes, they did Aerith's theme in the OG - but NOT this level of depth, and then different stages.....just hits you in ALL the feels.

2.  Gongaga (esp once the kids voices are added in) - honestly, I think I spent an extra hour just walking around because of how great that theme was.   It was also where I had to grind the materia up to full power, but it was super enjoyable

3.  No Promises to Keep - just hits you in all the feels on a replay, knowing what's ahead (and when it plays in background of the final date in last chapter at the church - aaaagh I'm not crying you're crying)

4.   Kylie's merc song (esp in Junon battle)

5.  Bow wow wow wow (Dog Salmon side quest in Junon)

6. Tifa & Aerith's theme in Gold Saucer dates

7.  Vincent's theme in the battle

8.  Yuffie's singing her theme

9.  Mt. Corel Climb

10.  The music for the Tangled-like cut scene in Cosmo Canyon &  Advent Children theme in Cosmo Canyon hotel reception area

11.  Turks' battle music (so many different ones too, I'm probably cheating by saying this as one, there are 4+ different versions)

12.  That opening Gold Saucer dance scene with Yuffie & Aerith / Tifa

13.  Gi Nattak battle scenes

14.  Gus' intro and battle music (there are like 8+ versions...that's crazy)

15.  Jenova Emergent (how did I forget that one)

16.  Gilgamesh

17.    Red's QB intro & battle music

18.   Demon Gate

19.  Roche's battles

20.  Rufus battle

God I could just keep going on....apparently 400+ tracks.  I can't wait for the FF7 Rebirth world tour orchestra (yes I got tix for me & my daughter).

 

Edited July 22 by Broncofan

[NcFinest9erFan]

On 6/7/2024 at 5:12 PM, Broncofan said:

Yeah I saw that on #6 too.   Amazing continuity.

Re: #4, what's wild is that the devs threw a line repeating the theory in Cosmo Canyon, with that "therapy" group Tifa spoke to.   I posted the vid in the earlier post above.   Insane, because it's so easy to miss (I did the first time, caught it the 2nd time through).

i think its chapter 8 in remake where Cloud has the vision of Aerith walking into the sleeping forest in rebirth and his right hand acts like its holding something.. yeah that would be holy materia in his hand in rebirth. I love this stuff. 

Side note: I remember in remake where you have the quest to go save the kids on a raft with Aerith. Chapter 7 maybe? But they eventually encounter a robed man and cloud eventually sees Sephorith. He mentioned him to Aerith and she plays coy. Cloud says he thinks Sephorith is still alive. The cam view shifts to Aerith. All she says is oh right and randomly walks off........

2 months after beating this game, I believe everything is done intentionally. 

[Broncofan]

On 6/11/2024 at 8:27 AM, NcFinest9erFan said:

i think its chapter 8 in remake where Cloud has the vision of Aerith walking into the sleeping forest in rebirth and his right hand acts like its holding something.. yeah that would be holy materia in his hand in rebirth. I love this stuff. 

Side note: I remember in remake where you have the quest to go save the kids on a raft with Aerith. Chapter 7 maybe? But they eventually encounter a robed man and cloud eventually sees Sephorith. He mentioned him to Aerith and she plays coy. Cloud says he thinks Sephorith is still alive. The cam view shifts to Aerith. All she says is oh right and randomly walks off........

2 months after beating this game, I believe everything is done intentionally. 

When 80+ percent of the staff on the dev/programming team was retained to do all 3 games, it's so clear that Nomura & co. planned the story board for all 3 games to sync together.

So many tie-ins from Remake & other FF games / Square games to Rebirth:

-Cait Sith's inclusion when Sector 7 plate went down (Nomura did underestimate how newbies would be completely mystified who this cat character was lol).

-Rude's throwaway comment on Tifa being a dime in Rebirth, followed by him holding up on Tifa (and Reno's "get a room" comment when they interacted, being aware of how Rude felt) 

-The side quests where they expanded so much more on Avalanche (Cosmo Canyon drink, the promise to visit Cosmo Canyon, Wedge's death, the gang's ghost return in Loveless at the end of Aerith's song) - they really paid off all the extra time we got to spend with Biggs/Wedge/Jessie in a massive way.   

-Loveless the book/story was actually a big part of Crisis Core (a game I did not play, but I read up on this), and man, did they ever go HAM - notice that Loveless was prominently featured in Remake's billboards, and then in Rebirth's Chocobo stops.  

-The Weapon posters that are everywhere in the game (Ruby & Emerald lol). 

-Bringing back Leslie & his GF (and we're getting resolution for sure in part 3) & the Avalanche support crew (cental command's tech guys) for Cosmo Canyon and the Zhiji / SRC (which also think we see more of in Wutai)

-The Kingdom Hearts ice cream cone reference (characters having ice cream cones after sad scenes, here it was Elena right after the Dyne - Barrett showdown)

-Sephiroth's Skewer attack & the Cosmo Canyon hotel lobby choral song being direct nods to Advent Children (still haven't seen it, will do so soon)

-Aerith's lifestream connect slow-dance in Ch-13 as a direct nod to Yuna in FFX-2

-The fact that you could break the safe code in Cait Sith's Chapter 13 section with the EXACT SAME COMBO as the OG game 

-Gilgamesh stating "this is your Final Fantasy" in his boss battle as a direct callback to FFV.

-So many callbacks to Crisis Core with Zack / Aerith / Cissnei & Dirge of Cerebrus (Vincent)

 

And I'm sure I'm not listing at least 3-4x more in direct callbacks to prior games.    So yeah, I agree that EVERYTHING that happens in FFVII Remake/Rebirth/??? is all planned to sync up.   Even if they didn't know for sure how to carry it forward, everything was placed intentionally to either call back to a past game key moment/character, or build to the next one.   It's also why I've gone from being disappointed at Aerith's ending not being clear to seeing that it's obscure for the same reason Remake's last scenes weren't clear - to keep us guessing for the payoff for next game.   As long as they deliver on that payoff, I'm totally fine with it (just have to keep guessing for 3+ years lol).

 

The amount of care & detail the devs gave to EVERY aspect of this game is just insane.  Again, I don't recall a game that went this hard, this long and to this extent...with such insane gameplay diversity, mini-game variety (which some were a PITA for sure, but others were really good to great <Queen's Blood once you expand your deck>), and music / character development & story expansion.    I didn't really appreciate at least half of what I posted above until I replayed the game....just crazy.

Edited July 22 by Broncofan