Travis Hunter. WR or CB?

[warfelg]

That TD catch he had shows his potential at WR and why I lean that way right now. That kind of ball skill is rare.  Route running can be learned to some degree. 

I would like to see a week where he just focuses on one side of the ball still. I saw a scout mention on a podcast that teams would likely want to see that as well so they can have an idea of what side specific development would look like. 

[Dcash4]

1 hour ago, armsteeld said:

He is an elite WR but an average CB with poor footwork who relies more on being a better athlete and using his IQ in coverage

We can agree to disagree, but I think this is backwards. His instincts are a corner are uncanny. Richard Sherman type stuff. Outside of his ball skills there is nothing that pops for me as a receiver. And I have mentioned this before, I don't even know if it's that he can't do things...it's more that he just doesn't or doesn't have to. 

[rlon]

14 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

We can agree to disagree, but I think this is backwards. His instincts are a corner are uncanny. Richard Sherman type stuff. Outside of his ball skills there is nothing that pops for me as a receiver. And I have mentioned this before, I don't even know if it's that he can't do things...it's more that he just doesn't or doesn't have to. 

I agree with this, though he is a much better athlete than Sherman. I think he will be a corner and if he becomes a star, he will see offensive snaps ala Deion.

Edited September 1 by rlon

[armsteeld]

Most evaluators and most NFL players are hoping that he plays WR. They see the potential plus the monetary rewards.

[Magnus-Viktor]

On 7/18/2024 at 12:24 PM, warfelg said:

I’m on the fence on him. I really want to see him focusing on one position. I heard one YouTube guy say it best - he shows you plenty of traits as to why he could be a high pick at both positions, but he’s too raw at both to feel confident taking him high at either position. He needs to be able to worry about one or the other and refine the skills needed to play that position full time.

 

Yeah, as a CU fan going back to the mid 90s when my cousin played there, I've probably watched them more than most.  Maybe I should say a former fan, seeing as how I have a hard time cheering for them with the circus they have going on there now.....   Anyway, I've never been all that impressed with Hunter.  For the #1 overall prospect and all that hype, I just don't see it.  He makes plays and he's good, don't get me wrong.  However, he's clearly raw at both.  I don't see the route running at WR, but then you see him make natural plays.  Same at CB.  He's far too slender for me to hype him up as the next Rod Woodson or Antonio Brown.  I'd burn a 1 on him, but not an early one.  

[Magnus-Viktor]

On 7/20/2024 at 9:37 AM, jebrick said:

Really?  Wr can run routes like his corner, post, fly or they can learn to run routes correctly.  Is is not even in the same picture as ANY of the OSU WR drafted in the recent years.  Same with Odunze.  All players that run NFL style route trees and know how to get in an out of the routes, how to sell the fake and dig the break.  Hunter has NONE OF THAT.  Ignore the stats and look at the player.

I am not saying that he is not a potential 1st round pick but he is not even at the Ricky Pearsall level.  I would put him on the same level as Ja'Lynn Polk as a WR AT THIS POINT.

I would definitely agree with that.  BUT, at the same time, his ball skills are definitely there.  I think if he focused on one, he could be a pro bowl or all pro caliber at whichever one he chose..  But right now, with him not perfecting the details of either one, he's not going to be pro bowl in either.

[warfelg]

7 hours ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

 

Yeah, as a CU fan going back to the mid 90s when my cousin played there, I've probably watched them more than most.  Maybe I should say a former fan, seeing as how I have a hard time cheering for them with the circus they have going on there now.....   Anyway, I've never been all that impressed with Hunter.  For the #1 overall prospect and all that hype, I just don't see it.  He makes plays and he's good, don't get me wrong.  However, he's clearly raw at both.  I don't see the route running at WR, but then you see him make natural plays.  Same at CB.  He's far too slender for me to hype him up as the next Rod Woodson or Antonio Brown.  I'd burn a 1 on him, but not an early one.  

Just overall with this team I have a hard time assessing the draft placement. There's some good, but I also have a lot of questions. Like you see that amazing TD catch. There's good on that with the catch, but the route was lazy and let the DB stick to him in his pocket. The throw was terrible ball placement and needs to be well to the outside. Then I do something like see that play Sheduer made when he took the shot, like I love that he stood in the face of pressure and delivered the ball while taking the hit, but the WR was WIDE open without someone within 15 yards of him

Like, my question as an evaluator would be that for two guys that are as talented as they are, as athletically gifted (Hunter) and mentally gifted at processing (Sanders) why does all the good plays look as difficult as it does. I have a hard time believing that the OL is so trash that passes can rarely be completed on schedule and Sanders needs to be on the move that much.

[armsteeld]

@warfelg Getting in and out of breaks is one of the simplest aspect of route running. The problem most guys have is with their pacing or having to throttle down. Those are the guys who normally struggle because of ankle stiffness, running too fast/slow, or trying to make 45° cuts when in reality it's closer to 55°. I played WR so take that how you will. 

I keep seeing the raw word tossed and you guys clearly don't know what you're looking for or maybe what you're talking about. That was abrupt and some will say rude but I say it's being direct. Cam Sutton is what Travis Hunter would be at CB but Devonta Smith is who he is at WR.

In regards to Deion teaching his CBs fundamentals, come on man! You think he isn't drilling those guys? If you watched some of their tape, he actually pulls guys aside to give them hands on tutelage/direction. Most guys lose fundament under fire (live drills/games). You're only going to develop if you continue putting in excess amounts of practice.

Let's play a game. What are Hunter's best attributes playing CB? 

[warfelg]

15 hours ago, armsteeld said:

What are Hunter's best attributes playing CB? 

His spatial awareness is is unbelievable and his instincts are amazing. His INT in the endzone where he dropped off his man to make the play was amazing. I see some people say that he was "lost" but I disagree, he saw the QB's eyes leave his man, hips shift, and he broke on it early. His ability to play the ball in the air and compete for that play is great - but it's also not a surprise.

He's elite in zone play where his eyes are staying forward and he's watching the play develop. He's still really good in man - I'm not going to knock him there that much since he's (IMO) so much better on this side - but I feel like the things that would come with him not splitting his time through the week on practicing and being in meetings on both sides. But I still have seen his do enough man to be comfortable that adding more time and technique to his natural abilities will make him both a zone and man corner.

I'm not sure what his best play style is going to be in the NFL. On one hand I think he could be really good playing what I call "bait" style corner where he plays with a leverage and angle that makes your guy look like he's open then he could jump it, or if he would be best just playing a blanket style and being so up over his man and take away that part.

I see a lot of people say that he's got longer to go at CB than WR and so scouts may recommend that to be his primary position. Personally I agree with the ones that say his skillset at CB would be so rare that adding more skill and technique to it would potentially make him all time great at the position. (here's the article that talked about this: "What NFL Scouts Say") No, I'm not sure how bad some things are and how much it's talked about but here's one of the few times I've seen someone put their name on the criticism of Hunter (Rick Speilman call Hunter "Undiciplined"). In this article I can understand Sanders desire to protect his guys from unnecessary injuries and issues - but at the same time protecting your guys to this level of no contact at all is also something that hurts development. It makes it harder to learn how to fight through contact, jamming guys at the line (now I'm going to add what I chucked at with this criticism of contact - add Sheduer as if that's a problem is laughable - no team allows contact on QB's).

End of the day, I feel like what he brings at WR is really damn good, but I also feel it's similar skills that I can find with other guys elsewhere in the draft. If I were putting my board together now based on production last year and this year - Tetairoa McMillan, Luther Burden, Isaiah Bond would go over him, and I would have him in the Emeka Egbuka, Elic Ayomanor area. At cornerback through - I have him on a tier alone well above Will Johnson, Benjamin Morrison, and Tacario Davis who are my only other 1st round corners, and even at that Davis is boarderline to me.

My long story short here is that I'm far more tantalized by his skillset fitting at CB than WR. I think his day 1 floor at WR is much higher, but his long term ceiling IMO at CB is all time great, and I would take the shot on that.