ZenoRazon Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Process of elimination.... Had to have started from day one. Won a SB. Set at least 4 NFL records. Led the NFL in TD passes. Led the NFL in passer rating. Most his first seven seasons a pro bowl. What QB did that his first seven seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said: Process of elimination.... Had to have started from day one. Why? This is simply an arbitrary requirement to eliminate prospective players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenoRazon Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Forge said: Just admit you were incorrect and move on. I learned my lesson, be damn sure to be specific. I should have said....of all the QB's who started as a rookie................ Moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenoRazon Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Forge said: Why? It's far more impressive for a rookie to come right in and take off than sit a bench. He didn't need anything, he came in and took right off. He tied the rookie TD record and put up a passer rating of 100. Who else has ever done that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenoRazon Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Forge said: Why? This is simply an arbitrary requirement to eliminate prospective players Ok, how about what QB had four 100 or better passer rating seasons their first seven seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said: It's far more impressive for a rookie to come right in and take off than sit a bench. He didn't need anything, he came in and took right off. He tied the rookie TD record and put up a passer rating of 100. Who else has ever done that? Meh. Sure it's impressive. Not so impressive that it washes out other advantages that quarterbacks would have over Wilson that could potentially be greater, so seems like an arbitrary mandate to just to limit participants. I mean rg3 can probably be viewed as having a better season that year, also a rookie. Does the fact that he came in and started right away mean that mean his career was more impressive than Carson Palmer's in the end? Just for that one thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said: Ok, how about what QB had four 100 or better passer rating seasons their first seven seasons? Rodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenoRazon Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Forge said: Meh. Sure it's impressive. Not so impressive that it washes out other advantages that quarterbacks would have over Wilson that could potentially be greater, so seems like an arbitrary mandate to just to limit participants. I mean rg3 can probably be viewed as having a better season that year, also a rookie. Does the fact that he came in and started right away mean that mean his career was more impressive than Carson Palmer's in the end? Just for that one thing? Not just talking rookie season, I;m talking that first seven. Starting from day one just one of many things to look at. RW has never sat on a bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenoRazon Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, Forge said: Rodgers. Yep, Aaron Rodgers he also had a 39.0, 48.2, and one of those 100 ratings was a 28 pass season. But, that doesn't matter...right? So Wilson is right there with the great Aaron Rodgers, cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said: Yep, Aaron Rodgers he also had a 39.0, 48.2, and one of those 100 ratings was a 28 pass season. But, that doesn't matter...right? So Wilson is right there with the great Aaron Rodgers, cool. You asked the question, I gave you the (correct) answer. Don't like the answer, not my problem. Doesn't mean it's not correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenoRazon Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, Forge said: You asked the question, I gave you the (correct) answer. Don't like the answer, not my problem. Doesn't mean it's not correct. Let's stick to Aaron Rodgers, let's take a better look at passer rating. season Rodgers first 1.39.8.....RW 100.0 2.48.2.....101.2 3.106.0....95.0 4.93.9....110.1 5.103.2....97.6 6.101.2...95.4 7.122.5...111.6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 What quarterback in their first seven seasons: Won a super bowl and was named super bowl MVP (which Wilson didn't do) Was named a first team all pro at least once (which Wilson hasn't been) Won an MVP (which Wilson hasn't done) Had a passing TD:Int ratio of at least 3.4:1 (which Wilson hasn't done) Had at least three 4000 yard passing seasons (which Wilson hasn't done) Had a passer rating of 120 or higher in at least one season (Wilson has not) Hasn't thrown a crippling, game sealing interception in a super bowl (oh, Wilson did this one) Lead the league in td%, int%, yards/attempt, adjusted net yards / attempts at least once (Wilson has never lead the league in any of those categories) A guy who does all this, when Wilson hasn't, must surely be better! But see, that nonsense I just showed? Completely arbitrary. I think Wilson's first seven years are absolutely one of the best ever. The best? I don't know. But I'd rather think about that without having to adhere to some ridiculous and arbitrary set of standards and guidelines that leaves Wilson at the only possible answer when you can do that pretty easily with other players and other stats And now I'm done. Have no interest in this any more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenoRazon Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 35 minutes ago, Forge said: What quarterback in their first seven seasons: Won a super bowl and was named super bowl MVP (which Wilson didn't do) Was named a first team all pro at least once (which Wilson hasn't been) Won an MVP (which Wilson hasn't done) Had a passing TD:Int ratio of at least 3.4:1 (which Wilson hasn't done) Had at least three 4000 yard passing seasons (which Wilson hasn't done) Had a passer rating of 120 or higher in at least one season (Wilson has not) Hasn't thrown a crippling, game sealing interception in a super bowl (oh, Wilson did this one) Lead the league in td%, int%, yards/attempt, adjusted net yards / attempts at least once (Wilson has never lead the league in any of those categories) A guy who does all this, when Wilson hasn't, must surely be better! But see, that nonsense I just showed? Completely arbitrary. I think Wilson's first seven years are absolutely one of the best ever. The best? I don't know. But I'd rather think about that without having to adhere to some ridiculous and arbitrary set of standards and guidelines that leaves Wilson at the only possible answer when you can do that pretty easily with other players and other stats And now I'm done. Have no interest in this any more If it takes a guy who sat on a bench learning the game from the great Bret Favre to compare to a guy who started from day one and was all on his own....what does that tell us? Put Wilson on the bench for three seasons being tutored by a legend, hmmm? Why so much of this sort of thing out there? December 19, 2018 at 11:56 am Seahawks QB Russell Wilson has 31 touchdowns through 15 weeks. (AP) On December 10, Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson set a new league record: his 73rd win — a 21-7 victory over the Minnesota Vikings — marked the most wins ever by a quarterback in his first seven seasons. 2 Seahawks selected to NFL Pro Bowl, 7 named alternates One week later, the NFL announced 2018’s Pro Bowl players. Wilson was listed as an alternate. There’s stiff competition for quarterbacks this year, especially with the Saints’ Drew Brees and the Chiefs’ Patrick Mahomes mounting MVP-caliber performances. But for 710 ESPN Seattle’s Brock Huard, Wilson’s vote as a Pro Bowl alternate just wasn’t enough. The former NCAA and NFL quarterback tweeted “I’m so sick and tired of Russell getting no respect,” Huard said on 710 ESPN Seattle’s Brock and Salk Wednesday morning. “Russell Wilson should’ve been a Pro Bowler. Instead, he has to look at Aaron Rodgers and Jared Goff be voted to the Pro Bowl, and not him, in a year when this team was supposed to be 4-12, and in a year where this was supposed to be a reboot, and in a year where this was supposed to be a turning over for Pete Carroll’s entire roster.“Elite franchise quarterbacks don’t lose more than eight or nine games a season. They just don’t do it. The floor when you are Drew Brees and Ben Roethlisberger is seven wins. Wilson is at eight wins, and will more than likely going to get them to nine and, who knows, maybe even 10. And he’s going to throw for more touchdown passes than he has in his career, and he’s going to have the highest QB rating of his career, and he’s going to be big in big moments with fourth quarter wins. And yet it doesn’t matter. He’s going to get the short end, as he did yesterday. “Russell’s won more games in his first seven seasons than any quarterback in the history of this league, and it doesn’t matter. All they care about, the national narrative, is what Russell doesn’t do.” Huard’s co-host Mike Salk pointed out that Pro Bowl nods are often a sign of respect. Even though former Green Bay coach Mike McCarthey was fired and the Packers will miss the postseason, Salk said Aaron Rodgers will get a nod simply because he’s Aaron Rodgers, and is one of the best quarterbacks in the history of the league. “When is Russell Wilson going to be Russell Wilson?” Huard countered. “He’s just never going to get it because he doesn’t look the part and he doesn’t do it the way the others do. He’s the second-most efficient passer in the history of this league and the best winner. When will it ever happen? When will this league ever realize that this is the greatest winner this league has known and someone who in his first seven years has thrown more touchdowns than anyone other than Peyton Manning and Dan Marino?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 3 hours ago, ZenoRazon said: Sure it can, just look at wins, playoff success, stats, NFL records/firsts. Actually it's real easy. I already told you why all of these statistics are essentially meaningless with the argument that you are tying to make. All of that doesn't denote an objective, factual, meaning in terms of an overall successful career. Especially across era, and especially in the very team oriented sport that is USA football. If you still don't understand why, well then I can't help you. Like Forge, I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenoRazon Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: I already told you why all of these statistics are essentially meaningless with the argument that you are tying to make. If you still don't understand why, well then I can't help you. Like Forge, I'm out. So just ignore everything. right? The hell with wns, records, firsts, playoff success, all the stats, all that means.....0. So if all that means nothing how is he on a pace for anything? What are we using here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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