ZenoRazon Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I gotta wrap this up. Wilson is second all time when it comes to passer rating. He has won more games than anyone after seven seasons. Only 4000/30/500 QB. Started day one, two SB's in first three seasons. NFL record 4th QTD passes in a season. Best QB rating ever in the 4th Q, Tied the rookie TD record. Only QB to ever have a 100 passer rating in their first two seasons. Three times more TD than INT. Will play in another pro bowl. Whatever, ADIOS~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywlker32 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Like a broken record... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LieutenantGains Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 8 hours ago, skywlker32 said: Like a broken record... He's a troll, I'm almost positive of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john305 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/21/2018 at 7:58 AM, ZenoRazon said: I gotta wrap this up. Wilson is second all time when it comes to passer rating. He has won more games than anyone after seven seasons. Only 4000/30/500 QB. Started day one, two SB's in first three seasons. NFL record 4th QTD passes in a season. Best QB rating ever in the 4th Q, Tied the rookie TD record. Only QB to ever have a 100 passer rating in their first two seasons. Three times more TD than INT. Will play in another pro bowl. Whatever, ADIOS~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Winning super bowls and winning regular season games are a team accomplishment. It's not like Wilson carried them, they had a great defense and run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 20 minutes ago, john305 said: Winning super bowls and winning regular season games are a team accomplishment. It's not like Wilson carried them, they had a great defense and run game. And Wilson was (and still is) a huge reason for the success of those early running games because of the threat of his legs. Almost all of those runs were runs where they were leaving an unblocked defender and running variations of inside zone. Yes, the Seahawks had great defenses but Wilson was still freaking good. There is no version of Russell Wilson that has ever existed where he was being carried by a run game and poor defenses. He's always been good. From day 1 to now. He was good when he had an elite defense and run game. He was good last year with literally no run game to speak of and no defense. He's still good this year with a good run game and no defense. It just doesn't matter. And keep in mind he's still never had a good offensive line, either. The other dude in here is definitely going "Colts fans defending Andrew Luck" levels of homerism, but Russell Wilson is still the most underappreciated QB in the NFL and has been since day 1. His consistency and efficiency despite major shortcomings elsewhere on the team (whether OL or WR's or RB's or defense) is just crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john305 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/11/2018 at 7:36 PM, ZenoRazon said: So forget..... SB win NFL records Pro bowls No rookie ever had more TD passes NO QB had a better first seven seasons. Just forget all that? So what do we go with? He;s the best QB I've ever seen with his experience. SB win is a team accomplishment, I'm sure if Dan Marino's defense held his opponent to 8 point he woulda won SB XIX handily. Dan Marino held NFL records by his 2nd year 5k season and 48 TD season he had pro bowls/all pros and MVP. Dan Marino had a 6.8 TD% compared to Wilson's 6.6 TD% as a rookie. He only started 9 games and threw 20 TD's, I would say that's just as impressive if not mores. Marino 1st 7 years 27853 yards 220 TD's 125 INT's 89.3 QBR and 83 sacks with 670 yards lost Wilson 1st 7 years 25472 yards 195 TD's 62 INT's 100.5 QBR and 293 sacks with 1909 yards lost Given the era Marino played in and how easy it is to pass nowadays I would say Marino more than holds his own compared to Wilson.Who's better? Well I guess it depends what you want out of your QB, for my money give me Marino who I suspect would do just fine if he had the defense and run game Wilson had the luxury of playing with early in his career. Wilson is a great QB but nowhere near as elite as you're hyping him to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john305 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: And Wilson was (and still is) a huge reason for the success of those early running games because of the threat of his legs. Almost all of those runs were runs where they were leaving an unblocked defender and running variations of inside zone. Yes, the Seahawks had great defenses but Wilson was still freaking good. There is no version of Russell Wilson that has ever existed where he was being carried by a run game and poor defenses. He's always been good. From day 1 to now. He was good when he had an elite defense and run game. He was good last year with literally no run game to speak of and no defense. He's still good this year with a good run game and no defense. It just doesn't matter. And keep in mind he's still never had a good offensive line, either. The other dude in here is definitely going "Colts fans defending Andrew Luck" levels of homerism, but Russell Wilson is still the most underappreciated QB in the NFL and has been since day 1. His consistency and efficiency despite major shortcomings elsewhere on the team (whether OL or WR's or RB's or defense) is just crazy. I'm not saying he wasn't good but the team success the Seahawks had as far as SB wins and regular season wins definitely has more to do with the defense and run game than Wilson himself. For argument sake I'm going to use my dolphins as an example. From 2012-2016 the Dolphins had 24 games where the defense allowed 18 or less points and had a win% of .917-during that time the Seahawks had 48 such games and had a win% of .906 From 2012-2016 the Dolphins had 19 games where the defense allowed 30 or more points and had a win% of .105-while the Seahawks had 8 such games and had a win% of .125 From 2012-2016 the Dolphins had 14 games where a runner had 100+ rushing yards and had a win% of .857-while the Seahawks had 28 such games with a win% of .750 Given this I can safely assume that if we simply had more games where the defense played like a top 5 unit we would have won a lot more. Maybe not a SB or even a playoff game but a lot more games seeing as how we won .917 of our games when they did. Now pair that with a consistent run game that gives us a .857 win% when going over 100 yards and now maybe we're winning playoff games. You don't find it a bit odd that the year the defense stopped being a top 10 unit is the same year the Seahawks missed the playoffs? I really don't think that's a coincidence. Now like I said Wilson is a great but lets not act like he didn't have a lot of help when he was accumulating all those wins and winning the SB because there is no version of Wilson that wins a SB had he been paired with a 20+ scoring defense. As we see with the Seahawks win% when the defense gives up 30 or more points now imagine if he had to deal with that more consistently than just 8 times in those 1st 5 years. At the end of the day it's ok that he had help, everyone needs help it's a team game. If it was just about the individual talent of the QB Aaron Rodgers would have more than 1 SB and Dan Marino would have more than 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles18 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 6:54 PM, ZenoRazon said: Most yards for a season 4, 119, RW..............4, 219 tom had 5 seasons with 4500+ and one with 5000+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Seattle had the number 1 running game because Russell was adding an additional 500-800 rushing yards. Marshawn Lynch never led the league in rushing. Obviously Lynch was great for the Seahawks and instrumental for their success, but it's dishonest to say they were a great rushing team and leave off the guy who added an addition 500-800 more yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 22 hours ago, john305 said: I'm not saying he wasn't good but the team success the Seahawks had as far as SB wins and regular season wins definitely has more to do with the defense and run game than Wilson himself. For argument sake I'm going to use my dolphins as an example. From 2012-2016 the Dolphins had 24 games where the defense allowed 18 or less points and had a win% of .917-during that time the Seahawks had 48 such games and had a win% of .906 From 2012-2016 the Dolphins had 19 games where the defense allowed 30 or more points and had a win% of .105-while the Seahawks had 8 such games and had a win% of .125 From 2012-2016 the Dolphins had 14 games where a runner had 100+ rushing yards and had a win% of .857-while the Seahawks had 28 such games with a win% of .750 This argument is old and tired. These same trends apply for literally every single other team. The more points you give up, the less likely you are to win - this is nothing new. This argument was just used to basically say Russell Wilson was a hyper-efficient game manager. It was a bad argument then, and it's still a bad argument now. 22 hours ago, john305 said: Given this I can safely assume that if we simply had more games where the defense played like a top 5 unit we would have won a lot more. Maybe not a SB or even a playoff game but a lot more games seeing as how we won .917 of our games when they did. Now pair that with a consistent run game that gives us a .857 win% when going over 100 yards and now maybe we're winning playoff games. But you didn't, so...and you have Ryan Tannehill, not Russell Wilson, so...that's another huge factor. 22 hours ago, john305 said: You don't find it a bit odd that the year the defense stopped being a top 10 unit is the same year the Seahawks missed the playoffs? Sure, I would find that odd but where's the Seahawks D ranked this year? Nowhere near the top 10 and yet, oh wow Russell Wilson with another career year and the Seahawks are in the playoffs? Now that is odd, considering I've once again been assured the Seahawks' success was due to their defense and not Russell Wilson. By the way, they missed the playoffs by literally one game because of their kicker, not Russell Wilson. He was their entire offense last year and they still missed the playoffs because Blair Walsh missed a FG in week 17. 22 hours ago, john305 said: I really don't think that's a coincidence. Now like I said Wilson is a great but lets not act like he didn't have a lot of help when he was accumulating all those wins and winning the SB because there is no version of Wilson that wins a SB had he been paired with a 20+ scoring defense. There's no version of any QB that's won a Superbowl recently with a 20+ scoring defense, is there? And if there was, was that defense still bad in the playoffs? Every successful QB has help, why are we acting like Russell Wilson is some exception? He was great when he had help on defense and he's been great when he hasn't had that help....what more do people need to see? lol 22 hours ago, john305 said: As we see with the Seahawks win% when the defense gives up 30 or more points now imagine if he had to deal with that more consistently than just 8 times in those 1st 5 years. Again why are we acting like he's not CURRENTLY dealing with this?! He is. His defense has been trash this year and yet look where they are, and look at the season he's having. 22 hours ago, john305 said: At the end of the day it's ok that he had help, everyone needs help it's a team game. If it was just about the individual talent of the QB Aaron Rodgers would have more than 1 SB and Dan Marino would have more than 0. Russell Wilson doesn't need to be regarded as Aaron Rodgers or Dan Marino to be a Hall of Fame QB or on a Hall of Fame pace. His statistics speak for themselves. He's got the team accomplishments, he's got the individual accolades. Nobody thought he could be a successful pocket passer - yet he's one of the best in the NFL. Nobody thought he could succeed without a top defense or run game - yet he's done it without both. He's succeeded with a great team, and he's succeeding without a great team around him - again what more does he need to do? If he wins the Superbowl this year, will people dismiss it as "well he had the #1 rushing attack that year so it doesn't count"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john305 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 17 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: This argument is old and tired. These same trends apply for literally every single other team. The more points you give up, the less likely you are to win - this is nothing new. This argument was just used to basically say Russell Wilson was a hyper-efficient game manager. It was a bad argument then, and it's still a bad argument now. But you didn't, so...and you have Ryan Tannehill, not Russell Wilson, so...that's another huge factor. Sure, I would find that odd but where's the Seahawks D ranked this year? Nowhere near the top 10 and yet, oh wow Russell Wilson with another career year and the Seahawks are in the playoffs? Now that is odd, considering I've once again been assured the Seahawks' success was due to their defense and not Russell Wilson. By the way, they missed the playoffs by literally one game because of their kicker, not Russell Wilson. He was their entire offense last year and they still missed the playoffs because Blair Walsh missed a FG in week 17. There's no version of any QB that's won a Superbowl recently with a 20+ scoring defense, is there? And if there was, was that defense still bad in the playoffs? Every successful QB has help, why are we acting like Russell Wilson is some exception? He was great when he had help on defense and he's been great when he hasn't had that help....what more do people need to see? lol Again why are we acting like he's not CURRENTLY dealing with this?! He is. His defense has been trash this year and yet look where they are, and look at the season he's having. Russell Wilson doesn't need to be regarded as Aaron Rodgers or Dan Marino to be a Hall of Fame QB or on a Hall of Fame pace. His statistics speak for themselves. He's got the team accomplishments, he's got the individual accolades. Nobody thought he could be a successful pocket passer - yet he's one of the best in the NFL. Nobody thought he could succeed without a top defense or run game - yet he's done it without both. He's succeeded with a great team, and he's succeeding without a great team around him - again what more does he need to do? If he wins the Superbowl this year, will people dismiss it as "well he had the #1 rushing attack that year so it doesn't count"? Lol defense has been trash this year? They are currently ranked 11th....I wish we had the same trash defense. How exactly has he succeeded without a great team? Division titles? Playoff wins? All Pro's? MVP's? We'll see how he does in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 4 hours ago, john305 said: Lol defense has been trash this year? They are currently ranked 11th....I wish we had the same trash defense. How exactly has he succeeded without a great team? Division titles? Playoff wins? All Pro's? MVP's? We'll see how he does in the playoffs. Seattle is ranked 19th in DVOA (https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef).15th in pass D and 18th in run D. Yeah, I classify that as "trash" in the overall scheme of things especially considering how down defenses are in general this year. Seattle's in the playoffs after being predicted to be a top-5 drafting team next year. I'd call that a wild success, all things considered. We'll see if he makes All-Pro (probably won't, but his stats are again insane this year), and we'll see how far they go in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoeless Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Yes, I think Wilson is close to a lock at this point, and still has miles left. Great QB. For all the chips in play, there aren't many I would take over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game3525 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 On 12/27/2018 at 12:22 AM, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Seattle is ranked 19th in DVOA (https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef).15th in pass D and 18th in run D. Yeah, I classify that as "trash" in the overall scheme of things especially considering how down defenses are in general this year. Seattle's in the playoffs after being predicted to be a top-5 drafting team next year. I'd call that a wild success, all things considered. We'll see if he makes All-Pro (probably won't, but his stats are again insane this year), and we'll see how far they go in the playoffs. Yeah, I am one of those people who would say the catalyst for Seattle's success from 2012-2015 was the defense, but that isn't the case this year. They are not a very good defensive team and they have won 10 games due to the running game and Wilson being absurdly efficient on deep balls. A TD% of 8.2 is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 hour ago, game3525 said: Yeah, I am one of those people who would say the catalyst for Seattle's success from 2012-2015 was the defense, but that isn't the case this year. They are not a very good defensive team and they have won 10 games due to the running game and Wilson being absurdly efficient on deep balls. A TD% of 8.2 is insane. His efficiency has been incredible this year, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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