NBA Draft Thread: NO trades 4 to ATL (8/17/35)

[11sanchez11]

2 hours ago, FinneasGage said:

i did less draft research this year than any other prior year. but i did briefly look at all the guys in the 1-24 range on most mocks. 

since the magic drafted chuma okeke i've spent a bit of time watching him... besides the ACL, I don't see why he wasn't an obvious lotto pick.. especially in this class. he's like surprisingly really good imo & i can't tell if i'm just drinking the kool aid on his pro's, but i think it's incredibly unlikely he isn't a useful NBA player for the next decade barring a career-long battle w/ knee issues 

what were other's thoughts on him through the process? for the guys that look into this heavy

Not much scoring upside but a solid switch defender, solid passer, good 3pt shooter, tough. 

He's a dude who will probably be able to play in high level games and not be a liability in any aspect. 

[GSUeagles14]

On 6/21/2019 at 1:16 PM, seminoles1 said:

Huerter was better as a freshman. He's a better shooter. He's a better playmaker. He's a smarter player.

And he's not 2 years older. He's almost exactly 1 year older.

Huerter is already better and still has more upside.

wait, are you saying heurter has more upside than cam reddish? 

[seminoles1]

7 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

wait, are you saying heurter has more upside than cam reddish? 

I'm absolutely saying that.

[GSUeagles14]

2 hours ago, seminoles1 said:

I'm absolutely saying that.

thats just dumb then. huerters better right now  but its inarguable reddish has a higher upside. Reddish has a chance to be a better version of heurter offensively and mutliples better defensively. 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, GSUeagles14 said:

thats just dumb then. huerters better right now  but its inarguable reddish has a higher upside. Reddish has a chance to be a better version of heurter offensively and mutliples better defensively. 

They're much different players too. Reddish has so much more potential as a ball handler/creator and at the very least should be an excellent defender. 

[seminoles1]

36 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

thats just dumb then. huerters better right now  but its inarguable reddish has a higher upside. Reddish has a chance to be a better version of heurter offensively and mutliples better defensively. 

Why does he have more upside? Because his arms are a little longer?

[11sanchez11]

50 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

They're much different players too. Reddish has so much more potential as a ball handler/creator and at the very least should be an excellent defender. 

Huerter is way more athletic than Cam, has a better shot and has a way quicker first step. You actually have to get past people to be able to create, something Cam hasn't shown he can do.

[GSUeagles14]

2 hours ago, 11sanchez11 said:

Huerter is way more athletic than Cam, has a better shot and has a way quicker first step. You actually have to get past people to be able to create, something Cam hasn't shown he can do.

better shot based on what, one year of college? heurter isnt an above average nba athlete either so i dont know what youre getting at, both guys can occasionally handle the ball but arent great creators. theyre actually really similar offensive players, one of the biggest difference is reddish is just bigger. You can easily see him playing at 225-230 in a few years and posting guys up, heurter just doesnt have the body type. However the thing that really separates their upside is that cam can be an elite defender and thats something huerter will never be. So while heurter may be a marginally better athlete, and youve offered up absolutely no evidence of that, it doesnt match cams potential on defense Of which there an almost consensus that he can be elite there. Do you wanna try again or just give up?

[GSUeagles14]

2 hours ago, seminoles1 said:

Why does he have more upside? Because his arms are a little longer?

Ill gladly answer your question even though you havent offered anything on how huerter has more upside. Its in the last post as well but the shorter anxswer is theyre really close offensively and reddish has the potential to be a elite defensive guy.  that will never be huerter, ever. 

[seminoles1]

33 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

Ill gladly answer your question even though you havent offered anything on how huerter has more upside. Its in the last post as well but the shorter anxswer is theyre really close offensively and reddish has the potential to be a elite defensive guy.  that will never be huerter, ever. 

You haven't provided anything except that Cam is currently worse and can put on some weight, so he must have more potential.

Huerter is a better shooter. He shot better from everywhere on the floor in college and shot better from everywhere on the floor in his rookie season in the NBA than Reddish did in college.

Huerter is a better passer and ball-handler. He actually can run as a secondary ball-handler and playmaker while Cam hasn't show any ability to do that. He had a negative assist-turnover ratio last season in college while Huerter had a 2-1 ratio as a rookie.

Huerter is a better athlete on game tape and he out up top 10 numbers for his class almost across the board at the combine last season. We don't have numbers for Reddish, but it's easy to see on the court.

So to recap: Huerter is a better shooter (most important), he is a better playmaker/decision maker, and he is a better athlete. I don't see at all how you can think they have similar offensive potential.

Cam is a quarter of an inch taller and has longer arms, so I guess theoretically he has more defensive potential. He did show out at times and I won't disagree here, but Huerter has a much bigger advantage on offense than Reddish has on defense.

[GSUeagles14]

12 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

You haven't provided anything except that Cam is currently worse and can put on some weight, so he must have more potential.

Huerter is a better shooter. He shot better from everywhere on the floor in college and shot better from everywhere on the floor in his rookie season in the NBA than Reddish did in college.

Huerter is a better passer and ball-handler. He actually can run as a secondary ball-handler and playmaker while Cam hasn't show any ability to do that. He had a negative assist-turnover ratio last season in college while Huerter had a 2-1 ratio as a rookie.

Huerter is a better athlete on game tape and he out up top 10 numbers for his class almost across the board at the combine last season. We don't have numbers for Reddish, but it's easy to see on the court.

So to recap: Huerter is a better shooter (most important), he is a better playmaker/decision maker, and he is a better athlete. I don't see at all how you can think they have similar offensive potential.

Cam is a quarter of an inch taller and has longer arms, so I guess theoretically he has more defensive potential. He did show out at times and I won't disagree here, but Huerter has a much bigger advantage on offense than Reddish has on defense.

Cam was a pg in hs p, he can absolutely be a secondary ball handler. And thankfully things like sample size exist so despite cam having underwhelming results his lone year in college, there’s plenty to say he will have a very good shot.

 

dont care about your eye test athleticism. Asa far as defense, as I already noted, it’s a near consensus the he has the upside to be elite. If you really want to argue this I can link 5 scouting reports in less than two minutes for you.

 

youre argument against reddish is one year of college, it’s completely possible he was just slow adjusting to college, playing with two other superstars, and level of competition. It’s why we’re talking upside and not who they are today.

[11sanchez11]

18 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

So while heurter may be a marginally better athlete, and youve offered up absolutely no evidence of that, it doesnt match cams potential on defense

so I will just take your word that he has elite defensive potential but I have to provide evidence that he is a better athlete? It's obvious if you watch them. There is a reason Cam shot 35 FG% and 51% at the rim (which is terrible). He also shot less than 2 shots per game at the rime, again terrible. He can't get by anybody. Huerter shot 71% at the rim and 50 FG% the year before he was drafted. Also Huerter finished top ten in all the agility/running drills at the combine and had a 38 vert jump, which is good. Cam didn't even do them, pretty easy to guess why. 

27 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

better shot based on what, one year of college?

so we are just gonna give credit to Cam just because. He shot 29% on catch and shoot threes last year, which is going to be his role in the NBA. He has a pretty low release. Which is why he finished in the 12th percentile of contested threes at .61 points per shot, which is terrible. Huerter shot 39% this year in the NBA and 39% in college. Cam shot 33% in college. 

Huerter also averaged more APG in the NBA than Cam did in college. And less TOs per game in the NBA than Cam did in college. Same in college for Huerter too. Huerter almost had a 2:1 assist to TO ratio last year. Cam had a negative A:TO ratio last year.

40 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

Of which there an almost consensus that he can be elite there

I don't care about consensus. Consensus was that Lonzo and Ben Simmons were poor to average defenders in college. I said Ben Simmons would be awesome defensively in the NBA, which he has. I said Lonzo would be better than people expected and he has (even better than I expected). I think Cam will be good but he isn't competitive enough, physical enough or athletic enough for me to say he will be elite. 

 

48 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

Do you wanna try again or just give up?

now it's your turn to provide me evidence, since you are so inclined towards it, of Cam's potential. 

[11sanchez11]

32 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

And thankfully things like sample size exist so despite cam having underwhelming results his lone year in college, there’s plenty to say he will have a very good shot.

 

he shot 267 threes at Duke, significantly more than he did his senior of high school. The one I looked up has his college # at 48 attempts his senior year of high school. 

Edited June 23, 2019 by 11sanchez11

[seminoles1]

7 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

Cam was a pg in hs p, he can absolutely be a secondary ball handler. And thankfully things like sample size exist so despite cam having underwhelming results his lone year in college, there’s plenty to say he will have a very good shot.

dont care about your eye test athleticism. Asa far as defense, as I already noted, it’s a near consensus the he has the upside to be elite. If you really want to argue this I can link 5 scouting reports in less than two minutes for you.

youre argument against reddish is one year of college, it’s completely possible he was just slow adjusting to college, playing with two other superstars, and level of competition. It’s why we’re talking upside and not who they are today.

High school? Really? So college doesn't matter and can be written off, but high school and a couple tournaments are fine? Huerter's rookie season in the NBA is irrelevant as well apparently. Just what Cam Reddish showed in high school. Awesome!

You keep talking about us providing proof (which we've done and you've seemingly completely glanced over), and you've provided absolutely nothing. All you've said is other people think he can be good defensively and you think he can play well at 20 lbs. heavier than he is now. That's it. That's all you've said besides making excuses for Reddish legitimately being a bad college basketball player.

We've both talked about Huerter being superior at the same age to Reddish, yet somehow you still think Reddish has more upside. I'm done here now.

[GSUeagles14]

7 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

so I will just take your word that he has elite defensive potential but I have to provide evidence that he is a better athlete? It's obvious if you watch them. There is a reason Cam shot 35 FG% and 51% at the rim (which is terrible). He also shot less than 2 shots per game at the rime, again terrible. He can't get by anybody. Huerter shot 71% at the rim and 50 FG% the year before he was drafted. Also Huerter finished top ten in all the agility/running drills at the combine and had a 38 vert jump, which is good. Cam didn't even do them, pretty easy to guess why. 

so we are just gonna give credit to Cam just because. He shot 29% on catch and shoot threes last year, which is going to be his role in the NBA. He has a pretty low release. Which is why he finished in the 12th percentile of contested threes at .61 points per shot, which is terrible. Huerter shot 39% this year in the NBA and 39% in college. Cam shot 33% in college. 

Huerter also averaged more APG in the NBA than Cam did in college. And less TOs per game in the NBA than Cam did in college. Same in college for Huerter too. Huerter almost had a 2:1 assist to TO ratio last year. Cam had a negative A:TO ratio last year.

I don't care about consensus. Consensus was that Lonzo and Ben Simmons were poor to average defenders in college. I said Ben Simmons would be awesome defensively in the NBA, which he has. I said Lonzo would be better than people expected and he has (even better than I expected). I think Cam will be good but he isn't competitive enough, physical enough or athletic enough for me to say he will be elite. 

 

now it's your turn to provide me evidence, since you are so inclined towards it, of Cam's potential. 

https://www.thestepien.com/cameron-reddish/

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/cameron-reddish

https://in.nba.com/news/nba-draft-2019-cam-reddish-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-and-player-comparison/1cppy7tyy9tcf16c9ygat0wya7

https://www.nba.com/draft/2019/prospects/cam-reddish#/

http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2016/02/cameron-reddish.html

 

Thats literally the first 5 links that came up for me when googling "cam reddish scouting report".... feel free to read through them all but youll note they all say sonething about his high defensive potential (or in similar words). SO no, youre not supposed to just take my word for it, I already sai several times it was a near consensus. Id be more than willing to read something that says reddishs longterm defensive outlook is poor... can you provide a link?  I dont care about your opinion, thats not a personal thing, as you shouldnt care about mine either. 

 

As ive already said, an di guess i have to repeat, sample size matters and a lone year of college doesnt change everything. Guys adjust at different rates, maybe he was homesick, maybe he wasnt used to not being the best player on the court far and away. Reglardless of the reason, I fully admit Hueters current production was better than Reddish' one year at Duke. However Reddish still has a very technically sound jumpshot (again, nealry a consensus) and hes been a good shooter previously.