NYRaider Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 23 hours ago, Dessie said: Above average slot corner? I’ll leave it there. He struggled last year but he was good as a slot player and elite as a safety with the Rams. Worley has never been ranked in the top 32 at anything in his career. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 20 minutes ago, NYRaider said: He struggled last year Correct but you think he’s an above average slot corner lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dessie said: Correct but you think he’s an above average slot corner lol. Overall body of work > one season There's a reason Joyner was ranked as a top 15 free agent by NFL.com and PFF last offseason and why he got the deal he got. Quote Digging deeper from seasons 2014 to 2018, Joyner has produced a 72.7 grade when covering the slot, 20th among all defensive backs, and he has allowed a passer rating of 89.4 which is the second-best mark among qualifying safeties. Along with Joyner’s 25.0 percent forced incompletion rate, he’s also produced a 12.9 percent forced incompletion rate when defending the slot, by far the best among safeties since 2006. Edited April 21, 2020 by NYRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Worley has been a starter all 4 years in the league. And in each of those 4 years the secondary he started in ranked amongst the worst in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Overall body of work > one season There's a reason Joyner was ranked as a top 15 free agent by NFL.com and PFF last offseason and why he got the deal he got. If he was FA this season you think he would be top 15 and be getting $9m a year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) Quote Joyner played 2018 on the franchise tag, which made him one of the highest-paid safeties in the NFL at $11.3 million. However, he was far from the fourth-best safety, which is what he was paid to be. Joyner struggled for most of the season, both in run support and in coverage. Given his slight frame at 5-feet-8, 191 pounds, it’s expected that he might not be the best at coming up and making stops against the run. But Joyner had moments where he failed to even get a finger on running backs and repeatedly missed tackles in the open field. He also got lost in coverage on occasion and didn’t display great ball skills, almost costing the Rams a win against the Saints in the NFC championship by allowing a catch deep downfield. Of course, it wasn’t all bad for Joyner last season. He did make some positive plays and it’s not as if he was a liability in coverage. It’s just that after seeing him thrive in 2017, he clearly took a step back this past season in a contract year. That typically doesn’t bode well for a player heading into free agency, especially one of Joyner’s small stature. Review of Joyner ‘elite’ safety 2018 Edited April 21, 2020 by Dessie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 42 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Joyner didn't play very well last season but he had too much of a cap hit to cut him. You just have to hope that he can regain form and that Rod Marinelli takes over as DC at some point. Because then we'll likely see him moved around and with the addition of Randall you can get creative with how you use Randall/Joyner/Abram. What’s happened to Heath you said he should be in a lot? How many safeties you playing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, Dessie said: If he was FA this season you think he would be top 15 and be getting $9m a year? Obviously not after this season but his overall body of work with the Rams was impressive, there's no denying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, Dessie said: Review of Joyner ‘elite’ safety 2018 So you're posting an opinion piece from an article about why the Rams should let Joyner walk in free agency to prove your point? One that has no statistically backing? LOL. Did you miss where over a 4 year period he had the 2nd lowest QBR allowed among all safeties in the league while in coverage? Joyner definitely had a down year last year but again he was one of the best DB's in the league with the Rams. You couldn't have cut him because of the dead cap so you just gotta hope that he'll regain form. You'll hate on Joyner who has at least flashed he can be a key cog for a good defense. But then pimp Worley who has never even been above average. Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, Dessie said: What’s happened to Heath you said he should be in a lot? How many safeties you playing? Heath will be a situational player for us and will certainly see the field. He'll likely be the third safety as it currently stands. I was saying if Marineli takes over as DC and uses Joyner like the versatile piece that he is, you can get creative with how you use him and Randall. As they both can play single high and they can both play in the slot. You can rotate 4 safeties when you're going to be in nickel 60% of the time and 2, possibly 3 (including Abram) of your safeties can lineup in the slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Sad. Sad is saying Joyner is an above average slot corner. Sad is not acknowledging that Joyner has declined the last 2 years. Edited April 21, 2020 by Dessie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 21 minutes ago, Dessie said: Sad is saying Joyner is an above average slot corner. Sad is not acknowledging that Joyner has declined the last 2 years. He was the 20th best slot cover guy in the league between 2014-2018. He certainly did have a down year last year. But again you can't cut him because of the dead cap. And if you actually play him to his strengths he's shown he can be one of the better and more versatile DB's in the league. Never did I say that Joyner was elite last season. But I'd still call him an above average player at the position considering his overall body of work. Also not really sure why me saying Worley sucks, which is the truth, turned into a Joyner bashing conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 52 minutes ago, NYRaider said: He was the 20th best slot cover guy in the league between 2014-2018. He certainly did have a down year last year. But again you can't cut him because of the dead cap. And if you actually play him to his strengths he's shown he can be one of the better and more versatile DB's in the league. Never did I say that Joyner was elite last season. But I'd still call him an above average player at the position considering his overall body of work. Also not really sure why me saying Worley sucks, which is the truth, turned into a Joyner bashing conversation. You did say he was an above average slot corner, I disagreed. You are cherry picking stats as they don’t include last year. You have tried to defend Joyner despite his awful year but at least you are acknowledging the only reason we are keeping him is the dead cap, which is where we agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Dessie said: You did say he was an above average slot corner, I disagreed. You are cherry picking stats as they don’t include last year. You have tried to defend Joyner despite his awful year but at least you are acknowledging the only reason we are keeping him is the dead cap, which is where we agree. I'll continue to call him above average based on the overall body of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: I'll continue to call him above average based on the overall body of work. I’ll bear that in mind going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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