Lebron's legacy !!! ??? !!!

[seminoles1]

31 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

This isn't true. The only player out for the year was Lonzo when he returned. 

The Lakers WITHOUT Lebran achieved a 34% win pct (9-17) and out of those 26 games, Ball missed 14, Kuzma missed 10, and Ingram missed 9. 

The Lakers WITH Lebran after his return from injury achieved only a 38% win pct (8-13) and out of those 21 games, Ball missed 21, Kuzma missed 2, and Ingram missed 10.

So in the 26 games Lebran missed, you had of course no Lebran for all 26, no Ball for 14, no Kuzma for 10, and no Ingram for 9. But in the 21 games Lebran played in after his injury they only had a 4% win increase yet they had Lebran for all 21, no Ball for all 21, no Kuzma for only 2, and no Ingram for 10? That's freaking horrible.

It's time we quit making up excuses for Bran-Bran and call his 2018-19 season for what it is. We all thought he could take a rag tag group in to the playoffs for a run, but that's only against scrub Leastern Conference competition. 

Michael Jordan couldn't lead the Wizards to more than 37 wins.

I don't understand why Jordan's 14th and 15th seasons get passes, but LeBron's 16th is fair game.

[showtime]

Just now, seminoles1 said:

Not talking about that, champ. He shrunk and played awful.

To me, that's the single biggest hit to his legacy.  He played well enough to win in his other Finals losses, so I don't hold those against him.  But nobody cares about that, he's 3-6 in the Finals.  The only person of all the modern players who are considered top 10 players with a losing record.

[Mossburg]

31 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

This isn't true. The only player out for the year was Lonzo when he returned. 

The Lakers WITHOUT Lebran achieved a 34% win pct (9-17) and out of those 26 games, Ball missed 14, Kuzma missed 10, and Ingram missed 9. 

The Lakers WITH Lebran after his return from injury achieved only a 38% win pct (8-13) and out of those 21 games, Ball missed 21, Kuzma missed 2, and Ingram missed 10.

So in the 26 games Lebran missed, you had of course no Lebran for all 26, no Ball for 14, no Kuzma for 10, and no Ingram for 9. But in the 21 games Lebran played in after his injury they only had a 4% win increase yet they had Lebran for all 21, no Ball for all 21, no Kuzma for only 2, and no Ingram for 10? That's freaking horrible.

It's time we quit making up excuses for Bran-Bran and call his 2018-19 season for what it is. We all thought he could take a rag tag group in to the playoffs for a run, but that's only against scrub Leastern Conference competition. 

Thanks for clearing that up, I thought Ingram and Kuzma were out for longer. So while I exaggerated, it is indeed true key players were injured. I'm not even saying LeBron had an amazing season. I'm pointing out the fact that the Lakers were in good position to make the playoffs before injuries, and missed the playoffs after injuries. Those injuries clearly played a role, in their totality. You're basically tell us lets make sure this season is a defining part of LeBron's legacy. I say with confidence if this team rebounds next season nobody will remember this season just like nobody will remember the year Kobe didn't make the playoffs in 2005, and a ton of people for some reason don't know that the Bulls lost to the Magic in the playoffs.

[dtait93]

3 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

Michael Jordan couldn't lead the Wizards to more than 37 wins.

And?

[seminoles1]

Just now, showtime said:

To me, that's the single biggest hit to his legacy.  He played well enough to win in his other Finals losses, so I don't hold those against him.  But nobody cares about that, he's 3-6 in the Finals.  The only person of all the modern players who are considered top 10 players with a losing record.

Agreed, that's a huge blemish.

LeBron's teams have been favored in 1 out of 9 Finals (and it's that 2011 series where he looked like a scared little boy). Simply stating the record and standing behind that is dumb. Not saying that's what you're doing, but plenty of people do.

[seminoles1]

2 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

And?

I don't get why Jordan gets a pass for his 14th and 15th seasons while you hold LeBron's 16th against him and have said in the past (pretty sure it was you) that this season somehow taints his previous accomplishments.

[Mossburg]

2 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

And?

It's a stain on his legacy. Remember to mention it when people are reminding everyone that he's 6/6.

[showtime]

The Lakers had a lot of injuries to deal with, but details like that will be forgotten in the future.  All people will see is, LeBron played in the worst conference in sports history and got to the Finals every year.  He lost there more than he won when he played against the West and then when he went to the West the Lakers didn't even make the playoffs.

How are you the best player in the world and your team can't finish in the top 8 of the conference they play in.

 

That's of course, assuming the Lakers never win a championship with LeBron. If they do that, then what I just typed doesn't matter.

[Mossburg]

Just now, showtime said:

The Lakers had a lot of injuries to deal with, but details like that will be forgotten in the future.  All people will see is, LeBron played in the worst conference in sports history and got to the Finals every year.  He lost there more than he won when he played against the West and then when he went to the West the Lakers didn't even make the playoffs.

How are you the best player in the world and your team can't finish in the top 8 of the conference they play in.

 

That's of course, assuming the Lakers never win a championship with LeBron. If they do that, then what I just typed doesn't matter.

I mean, as they always say, the devil is in the details. There's people that will says all kinds of dumb crap. Some years he got to the Finals were a lot easier than others. Some were well earned and it doesn't matter if it was in the East if he had to go through teams that gave them a ton of trouble (Celtics, Bulls, Pacers). The last 2 years it was really bad, and it should be noted, but that has nothing to do with his teams beating the best team out of the West 3 times, and getting dumpstered the other times when his team was clearly inferior (outside of 2011) and he still more than did his part.

People who will just repeat some silly talking point aren't worth considering. I'm not sure why you think that's important. People who are around the game for a long time will give him the respect he is due.

[seminoles1]

3 minutes ago, showtime said:

How are you the best player in the world and your team can't finish in the top 8 of the conference they play in.

That's it right here. He's not the best player in the world anymore. Did anyone watching him this season think he was the best player in the league or anywhere close to as good as he used to be overall?

So why is a non-prime season being held against LeBron to the point where people question his abilities and accomplishments from his prime? What other all-time great deals with that?

[showtime]

1 minute ago, seminoles1 said:

That's it right here. He's not the best player in the world anymore. Did anyone watching him this season think he was the best player in the league or anywhere close to as good as he used to be overall?

So why is a non-prime season being held against LeBron to the point where people question his abilities and accomplishments from his prime? What other all-time great deals with that?

I think coming into the season, he was still universally thought of as the best player in the world.  Lot of people still have him top 2 or even #1.

[seminoles1]

Just now, showtime said:

I think coming into the season, he was still universally thought of as the best player in the world.  Lot of people still have him top 2 or even #1.

Because of the playoffs. He hasn't been the best player in the regular season for a few years now.

2019 LeBron can't do what 2012 LeBron could do and suddenly that means we all have to question everything about LeBron pre-2019 and how 1 season past LeBron's prime could reshape his legacy?

[showtime]

4 minutes ago, Mossburg said:

I mean, as they always say, the devil is in the details. There's people that will says all kinds of dumb crap. Some years he got to the Finals were a lot easier than others. Some were well earned and it doesn't matter if it was in the East if he had to go through teams that gave them a ton of trouble (Celtics, Bulls, Pacers). The last 2 years it was really bad, and it should be noted, but that has nothing to do with his teams beating the best team out of the West 3 times, and getting dumpstered the other times when his team was clearly inferior (outside of 2011) and he still more than did his part.

People who will just repeat some silly talking point aren't worth considering. I'm not sure why you think that's important. People who are around the game for a long time will give him the respect he is due.

Earlier, you or someone else said the Lakers were the 4th seed before the injuries.  That happened roughly two months into the season, which means nothing.  When LeBron came back the Lakers were still very much in contention for a postseason spot and then they proceeded to lose to lottery teams like the Grizzlies and Hawks. 

[Mossburg]

Just now, showtime said:

Earlier, you or someone else said the Lakers were the 4th seed before the injuries.  That happened roughly two months into the season, which means nothing.  When LeBron came back the Lakers were still very much in contention for a postseason spot and then they proceeded to lose to lottery teams like the Grizzlies and Hawks. 

Yea, and part of that was they were never healthy again. I'm not excusing their losses to teams they shouldn't have lost to, but they were a completely different team post injuries. Maybe they fall apart and don't make the playoffs even if no one gets hurt, I dunno. It's just a fact that they were playing at a higher level before a ton of injuries occurred and never got back to that level again, and they were never a fully healthy team. The bottom of the West was really competitive too this year, so that made it harder. LeBron deserves a chunk of the blame, especially considering he's a leader and how he refused to play D, but that's just a part of it.

This season does nothing for his legacy. If he breaks down and/or declines next year, that does nothing for his legacy. He can basically only add to it because he's already reached heights that put him in serious debates that only a select few belong in.

[seminoles1]

5 minutes ago, showtime said:

Earlier, you or someone else said the Lakers were the 4th seed before the injuries.  That happened roughly two months into the season, which means nothing.  When LeBron came back the Lakers were still very much in contention for a postseason spot and then they proceeded to lose to lottery teams like the Grizzlies and Hawks. 

It's tough to adjust to LeBron, adjust to no LeBron, and adjust back to LeBron. They were gelling and playing well and then they got hit with injuries. That hurts any team, but it hits a team that had as much roster turnover as the Lakers a lot harder.

They had inexcusable losses regardless though. What that tells me is LeBron isn't as good as he used to be...among many other things about the Lakers in general haha.