big9erfan Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 3 hours ago, y2lamanaki said: But did the team not agree to pay him $126 million? Yes or no? IF - IF - IF they kept him on the team. Whatever guaranteed money was in the contract was what they agreed to pay him no matter what. Are you suggesting all money in all contracts should be guananteed? OK. Fine. But it will be a WHOLE lot less, because it would be unaffordable at the rates written into contracts if it all had to be paid no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 3 hours ago, y2lamanaki said: Same here. When I didn't like AT&T, I left and worked for Verizon. So Aaron Donald should leave the Rams and go work for the 49ers? Union! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 2 hours ago, y2lamanaki said: Well if the play falls off, as we have pointed out - teams do not have to pay that top dollar. So teams can get out from under that. So according to what you've been arguing, you shouldn't have a problem with that because the player can be cut if they aren't living up to their end of the bargain. Of course, players get cut in cost-saving maneuvers all of the time with no regard to their play on the field (like Ward, as I mentioned moments ago). Vance McDonald signed to play here for another 5 years, and the team decided he was moving to Pittsburgh with McDonald having no say in that either. So teams - they can do whatever they need to do to avoid living up to their end of the bargain. Why can't players? And as for the rest of the team - the other players, the GMs, the coaches, etc. - as you have noted, this is the NFL. This is the best of the best, and players holding out is to be expected. So I don't see why you feel for them, if you don't feel for the player himself - the player who did not negotiate his contract, who did not get to choose where he wanted to play, and who has no decision on how long he has to play there. Kirk Cousins sure has not had a lot of say on where he gets to play and whether or not he can go to another team, has he? This is a wholly serious question - what part of the bargain do you think teams are not living up to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 33 minutes ago, Forge said: The system allows him to renegotiate after his third accrued season. That's what he's doing. And he's using the only leverage he has - holding out. Also not forbidden by the CBA. He's 100% within the rules. He's not doing anything wrong. If they didn't want this to happen, they shouldnt' have given first rounders the opportunity to renegotiate after year 3. Honestly you promise to work for a certain amount of money, then decide you're worth more. So you refuse to work for the amount you agreed to thereby causing harm to your employer who was expecting you to work for that amount, and you find nothing wrong with that? There are just so many times when people fail to differentiate between what a person has a right to do, and what the right thing to do is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 14 minutes ago, Forge said: And what part of the players contract forbids him from holding out? Very old fashioned concept here ... how about the fact that he gave his word he would work for the amount specified in the contract, Does that mean nothing any more? If that guy digging the ditch around your house refuses to finsih the job for the money he agreed to because he knows heavy rain is on the way are you honestly sitting there and thinking that he has a right to not finish the job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Just now, big9erfan said: Honestly you promise to work for a certain amount of money, then decide you're worth more. So you refuse to work for the amount you agreed to thereby causing harm to your employer who was expecting you to work for that amount, and you find nothing wrong with that? There are just so many times when people fail to differentiate between what a person has a right to do, and what the right thing to do is. Nope. The CBA give him that right. He's taking advantage of it. Maybe next time they structure it differently. Ahmad Brooks expected to be employed by the San Francisco 49ers for the 2017 season And I know the difference between what a person has the right to do and what the right thing to do is, thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 1 minute ago, big9erfan said: Very old fashioned concept here ... how about the fact that he gave his word he would work for the amount specified in the contract, Does that mean nothing any more? If that guy digging the ditch around your house refuses to finsih the job for the money he agreed to because he knows heavy rain is on the way are you honestly sitting there and thing that he has a right to not finish the job? Really? This is where we are going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 As for predictions - have you guys noticed that there are a whole lot of folks now predicting 5 or 6 wins for us. I even heard a talking head predict 8-8? I think that's crazy talk. But the consensus now seems to be more than 2 or 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Forge said: Really? This is where we are going? Absolutely because that's what's happening here. You keep talking about what he has a right to do. To me that's not at all the point. You have the right to violate all the terms of every contract you ever sign. I mean you CAN do it. That doesn't make it right. The one an only reason I've read in these many pages is that it's his chance to negotiate a better deal. So is that not exactly like the guy digging the ditch who realizes that the rains coming have changed things and now he's worth more. He has the right to stop digging. Now tell you think that is just fine. Tell me that when your house floods you'll still be feeling that he had the right to stop work and demand more money than he already agreed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fureys49ers Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, big9erfan said: As for predictions - have you guys noticed that there are a whole lot of folks now predicting 5 or 6 wins for us. I even heard a talking head predict 8-8? I think that's crazy talk. But the consensus now seems to be more than 2 or 3. I can see 4 with us surprising a few teams, maybe 5 but until we see some improvement along the OL and CBs I can't see us going .500. Id absolutely love it but that's crazy talk to me. @big9erfan, you, I like you. Come sit next to me. We're going to be friends now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big9erfan Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 where's the online sitting room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fureys49ers Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 Haha well work out the details later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, big9erfan said: Absolutely because that's what's happening here. You keep talking about what he has a right to do. To me that's not at all the point. You have the right to violate all the terms of every contract you ever sign. I mean you CAN do it. That doesn't make it right. The one an only reason I've read in these many pages is that it's his chance to negotiate a better deal. So is that not exactly like the guy digging the ditch who realizes that the rains coming have changed things and now he's worth more. He has the right to stop digging. Now tell you think that is just fine. Tell me that when your house floods you'll still be feeling that he had the right to stop work and demand more money than he already agreed to. Yes, he has the right not to finish that job, and if he wants to do that, I have no issues with that. I have recourse, so okay. He pulls that, I stop paying him and I hire someone else. The rams have that option too. There are lawsuits, etc etc. Of course, then he'll also have issues keeping work up in the future, so you know, he's putting himself and his livelihood at risk there, which lets be honest, Aaron Donald really isn't by holding out. Ditch digger wants to take that risk? Okay. More power to him, good luck on that. The problem here is that you have a moral issue with it because you think it's "wrong", and quite frankly, just because you think something is "right" or "wrong" doesn't make it so. It's subjective. I'm not going to tell you what you can be morally objected to, so if you feel that way, more power to you. But at the same time, you're not going to impose that morality on me, him or anyone else. Your sense of right and wrong is completely up to you, but just remember that because you feel that way it doesn't require everyone else to. But I don't have a problem with this. Aaron Donald doesnt have a problem with this. And really, that's all it comes down to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fureys49ers Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 Haven't they come close to a new contract already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 Just now, Fureys49ers said: Haven't they come close to a new contract already? Yes, per the rams fans, the difference that is holding it up right now is how the guaranteed money is spread out. They've apparently agreed on the money. My guess is that he wants a bigger signing bonus, and they are looking to guarantee some base salary in future years along with maybe some other bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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